Low End Clarity Live?

[Zooberwerx]

Sorry have been working lads...

Ok so on the amp my settings are:

limiter on
Tweeters off (switch on the back of the amp)
bright switch off
Bass 4
Middle 5
Treble 2

My bass (Audere preamp)
70/30 split neck/bridge
High mid - 4.5
Low mid - 5.5
Bass - 5
Treble - 4

If I push the bass up on the preamp past 5 i do end up with a bit of a muffled tone.

Also on the wiring for the Audere, I may have done it arse ways... I had 3 ground wires (1 from each pickup and bridge) so on the Audere I clamped all 3 together to the ground and removed the grounding plate...

Thanks for the docs and tips!!

Ah, I'd work with bass centered...for now. You've EQ'd your amp with a considerable amt of mid-scoop and some degree of bass boost according to the doc's I read. You'll end up with loss of definition and the addition of low-end muddle which, in a sense, meets your description. Crank the bass back to 2.5 or so, and the mids up to at least 7. I have the classic Audere 4 band and, yes, you're on the right track. Boost the low mids a tad and back off the high mids by the same amount. I can't speak with any certainty on your wiring scheme, though. If the controls work as expected and getting no noise, I wouldn't be too concerned.

Riis

 

[Vintage P]

Everything under 60hz is just hum and rumble. Cut that, then you can pump the volume. Unfortuunatly, many soundmen do not understand that simple concept. They equate bass with LOW frequencies.

 

[BernardBass]

Ah, I'd work with bass centered...for now. You've EQ'd your amp with a considerable amt of mid-scoop and some degree of bass boost according to the doc's I read. You'll end up with loss of definition and the addition of low-end muddle which, in a sense, meets your description. Crank the bass back to 2.5 or so, and the mids up to at least 7. I have the classic Audere 4 band and, yes, you're on the right track. Boost the low mids a tad and back off the high mids by the same amount. I can't speak with any certainty on your wiring scheme, though. If the controls work as expected and getting no noise, I wouldn't be too concerned.

Riis

Brilliant! Ill give the settings a go (practicing next week)...

Also no noise to speak of from the bass apart from standard single coil hiss, which isnt that prominent given my settings.

many thanks man!

 

[BernardBass]

Everything under 60hz is just hum and rumble. Cut that, then you can pump the volume. Unfortuunatly, many soundmen do not understand that simple concept. They equate bass with LOW frequencies.

Im assuming I would need a graphic eq to be able to do that?

 

[Zooberwerx]

Brilliant! Ill give the settings a go (practicing next week)...

Also no noise to speak of from the bass apart from standard single coil hiss, which isnt that prominent given my settings.

many thanks man!

Don't worry about the GEQ at this point as you probably have more control over the bass shelving than you realize: keep in mind that it is interactive with the other tone controls. IOW, the Fender tone stack has been an effective staple for years and may need no embellishment. Problem is that once set correctly, the knobs just look wrong! Whatever happened to knobs @ 12:00 = flat?!?

Riis

 

[Vintage P]

Im assuming I would need a graphic eq to be able to do that?

Of course.

 

[BernardBass]

Don't worry about the GEQ at this point as you probably have more control over the bass shelving than you realize: keep in mind that it is interactive with the other tone controls. IOW, the Fender tone stack has been an effective staple for years and may need no embellishment. Problem is that once set correctly, the knobs just look wrong! Whatever happened to knobs @ 12:00 = flat?!?

Riis

The whole interactive thing is completely new to me... and a bit mad... suppose I'll just need to spend a few hours with the amp up loud to get a real feel for the controls!

 

[BernardBass]

How does it sound without the extension cab? Possibly they don't blend well to your ear, always a risk with non matching cabs even when the same brand.

Interesting... just found this article on Victor Wootens setup... Link Removed

Although I'm not using a hydrive 1X15 Cab, Wooten apparently uses a blend of Cabs in his setup, 4X10 + 1X15... which is what I was looking for.

"He currently uses Hartke's LH1000 head which boasts 1000 watts of classic, class-A tube front end with a solid state output. For his cabinets, he uses two different options from Hartke's HyDrive line. The Link Removed and the Link Removedemploy a hybrid speaker design that are half aluminum and half paper, offering a mix of traditional warm tone and clear punchy attack."

 

[4Mal]

Sorry just to add - I do flick between low z and high z modes quite a bit, early acdc stuff is a lot different to the later so its quite handy for that.

Seems to me part of the problem is too many options at play all at once. It's like a kid with a box of crayons... Use enough colors and you end up with brown... You got sonic brown...

I'm a fan of the Audere for it's more or less transparent vibe. If you are getting mud. I'll bet your low Z isn't dialed in. Dialing it in can take some time.

One thing you might do ... Set the controls flat on the bass, 50/50 blend p, neutral Z and dial in as close to your sound as possible with the amp. Then make MINOR tweaks with the on board tone controls to suit when live...

If the Hartke is faithful to the Fender tone stack then bass, middle, Treble at 2-10-2 is approximate flat. Try 6-10-6 which is a pleasant mid scoop, back it off toward 6-6-6 which is a more extreme scoop. That is a time approved Fender Showman Amp approach... It might be a good place to start.

The other thing that comes to mind is where are you trying to dial your sound in ? Beware the bedroom tone syndrome... Do keep in mind that your tone can be radically different 10 to 20 feet out front. That is hugely important if your amp is carrying the room. Personally I prefer being in the Pa in all but the very smallest places I go and even in those, I'll often Di to the house and let it do the work...

 

[BernardBass]

Seems to me part of the problem is too many options at play all at once. It's like a kid with a box of crayons... Use enough colors and you end up with brown... You got sonic brown...

I'm a fan of the Audere for it's more or less transparent vibe. If you are getting mud. I'll bet your low Z isn't dialed in. Dialing it in can take some time.

One thing you might do ... Set the controls flat on the bass, 50/50 blend p, neutral Z and dial in as close to your sound as possible with the amp. Then make MINOR tweaks with the on board tone controls to suit when live...

If the Hartke is faithful to the Fender tone stack then bass, middle, Treble at 2-10-2 is approximate flat. Try 6-10-6 which is a pleasant mid scoop, back it off toward 6-6-6 which is a more extreme scoop. That is a time approved Fender Showman Amp approach... It might be a good place to start.

The other thing that comes to mind is where are you trying to dial your sound in ? Beware the bedroom tone syndrome... Do keep in mind that your tone can be radically different 10 to 20 feet out front. That is hugely important if your amp is carrying the room. Personally I prefer being in the Pa in all but the very smallest places I go and even in those, I'll often Di to the house and let it do the work...

Thanks for the tips mate!

What do you mean by the low z dialed in? I spent a while setting the volume contols (2 little tiny switches on the internal board) so when i switch between modes the volume is the exact same as passive z...if that makes sense?

Zooberwerx mentioned earlier that flat on the hartke is (bass) 2.5, (mids) 10, (treble) 0 so not a million miles away.

Well I dial in my sound in multiple locations, rehershals, gigs etc.. primarily we setup the stage as if we were jamming, get the levels right there before going near the PA. Then all we do is carry that sound through the PA... found it easiest to setup for small gigs.

If I have room normally I bring the desk out about 10 metres from the PA while sound checking. Keep it on stage right beside me while playing.

Thanks!

 

[4Mal]

Thanks for the tips mate!

What do you mean by the low z dialed in? I spent a while setting the volume contols (2 little tiny switches on the internal board) so when i switch between modes the volume is the exact same as passive z...if that makes sense?

Zooberwerx mentioned earlier that flat on the hartke is (bass) 2.5, (mids) 10, (treble) 0 so not a million miles away.

Well I dial in my sound in multiple locations, rehershals, gigs etc.. primarily we setup the stage as if we were jamming, get the levels right there before going near the PA. Then all we do is carry that sound through the PA... found it easiest to setup for small gigs.

If I have room normally I bring the desk out about 10 metres from the PA while sound checking. Keep it on stage right beside me while playing.

Thanks!

Ok, so that all sounds except for the low z being the same volume as neutral. Low z should provide a bass boost and more apparent volume.... At least there isn't too much low z. That was a source of mud f0r me while dialing.

Moving the desk out. Yikes! I see a cheap wireless in your future ;-)

If you take an approach like the 6-6-6 above then dropping to 5-6-5 should assist in the boom dept. The interactive tone stack can take awhile to suss. So ... Even though you have options galore, carrying a parametric eq for boom reduction while you are getting the hang of it might be helpful.

IMO, that addition of a semi-parametric mid after the tone stack was the best thing about the BBE Max series preamps...

 

[BernardBass]

Ok, so that all sounds except for the low z being the same volume as neutral. Low z should provide a bass boost and more apparent volume.... At least there isn't too much low z. That was a source of mud f0r me while dialing.

Moving the desk out. Yikes! I see a cheap wireless in your future ;-)

If you take an approach like the 6-6-6 above then dropping to 5-6-5 should assist in the boom dept. The interactive tone stack can take awhile to suss. So ... Even though you have options galore, carrying a parametric eq for boom reduction while you are getting the hang of it might be helpful.

IMO, that addition of a semi-parametric mid after the tone stack was the best thing about the BBE Max series preamps...

Haha yeah... pain in the arse moving the desk out and back for sound checks... Think I'll just pass the torch and make life way easier

The Low z stuff...interesting... I had it as stock for a while... then made a ton of changes to it. Both low/high z I brought down the volume to the same as the passive mode. I just wanted more bass, more twang options without noticeable volume swells, I had been using a boost pedal separately...something I may revisit.

That BBE BMAX looks like a fairly serious piece of kit! I was always tempted to pickup an EBS MicroBass II Bass Preamp Pedal...but spending 300 euro on something I might not need...wouldn't bode well with the misses

My kit is in my home town and I dont get to "fiddle" with it on a regular basis so I'll be there on Thursday and Have a real play with it - leaving the bass flat and working the amp. I'll report back when I've had a mess with it.

Once again thanks to all, its been a big help!