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Low-end Fender, or a high-end Squier?

#61
Personal opinion only: The Classic Vibe basses are amazing. I can't get over how great they look, feel, play, and sound. They are equal to or better than any number of Mexican-made Fenders (I believe the CVs are all made in a particular Chinese factory —*possibly the same one Rondo uses). Every time I pick up the CV 60s Jazz or 60s P I crave one. You won't be disappointed.
 
#62
I don't own a CV (but want to), but I've owned MIM's and played MIA's. IMHO the CV Squiers have changed the existing paradigm or pecking order if you will. It used to be if you couldn't afford MIA you'd get MIM and possibly upgrade pickups. If you couldn't afford that or were a beginner - Squier was for you (and again, you'd HAVE TO upgrade pickups). I was really skeptical about Squier until I picked up a CV 60's P-Bass to try. Admittedly I wasn't familiar with VM's or any of the most recent lines - just what I knew in the 90's and also what I've seen in Squier box kits. I don't include the early Japanese Squiers and Fenders, that was before my time. But I do remember production Squiers in the 90's being dismal. Guitars and basses. I'm sure that occasionally a great sounding/playing instrument occured, but I doubt it was common.

If I was to get a MIM Fender, I would immediately replace pickups. I really like the pickups in the CV basses I've tried - those are a keeper for a vintage tone.

IMHO honestly CV line makes certain "in between" Fenders irrelevant (unless you're of the "logo on the headstock" persuasion). I know that there are certain signature and non-standard MIM models, so I'm not including those - I'm just talking about your Standard Strat, Standard P Bass, etc.
 
#63
Whichever plays better. As many of us have learned, no 2 Fenders of Squiers play alike, it's part of being a mass produced instrument. As much as people hate hearing it, Fender is definitely a "try before you buy" brand.
 
#64
SoonerMatt said:
no 2 Fenders of Squiers play alike, it's part of being a mass produced instrument.
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Hold on a minute. If not playing alike is a feature of mass-produced instruments, then handmade ones must by that logic sound more uniform. This makes no sense to me. If that were true, mass-produced instruments would be more desirable than handmade, one-off instruments.

I guess you could argue that it means "mass produced instruments are inconsistent," but that's not how I understood your post.
 
#65
selowitch said:
Hold on a minute. If not playing alike is a feature of mass-produced instruments, then handmade ones must by that logical sound more uniform. This makes no sense to me. If that were true, mass-produced instruments would be more desirable than handmade, one-off instruments.

I guess you could argue that it means "mass produced instruments are inconsistent," but that's not how I understood your post.
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I think you're looking at this backwards. Not playing alike isn't a feature when they're all supposed to play alike but don't. ;) And remember, we're talking about alike in terms of quality, not uniqueness.

You want all handmade instrument to be alike in terms of quality - you want them all to be perfect more or less, even if the basses themselves are different from one another. This is the goal for production line basses, but things like cost and profit margin get in the way, and the same attention to detail is just not possible. Therefore quality varies - all basses are not alike in terms of quality.

The fortunate, or rather unfortunate, part is that all production line basses vary so heavily in terms of quality in that there's a huge amount of overlap between all tiers of Fender instruments. The variations of quality do get tighter as you get into more expensive instruments, but there is still overlap. This is why I have an X-tier bass (I won't tell you the real tier or brand) that gets praise from local studios for it's sound. It wasn't expensive, and I got lucky honestly.
 
#66
Well, assuming that it's true that no two Fenders/Squiers alike (I have my doubts, but let's assume it's true), that either is a function of the inconsistency in these instruments which happen to be mass-produced, or it's a function of their uniqueness, which would be an unintended (but perhaps desirable) byproduct of them being mass-produced.

Either way, that makes me want to try out a bunch of Squiers/Fenders and snag one of the good ones, which is exactly what i try to do.
 
#69
selowitch said:
Well, assuming that it's true that no two Fenders/Squiers alike (I have my doubts, but let's assume it's true), that either is a function of the inconsistency in these instruments which happen to be mass-produced, or it's a function of their uniqueness, which would be an unintended (but perhaps desirable) byproduct of them being mass-produced.

Either way, that makes me want to try out a bunch of Squiers/Fenders and snag one of the good ones, which is exactly what i try to do.
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I agree with all of that save the uniqueness argument. In my experience, which is mine alone and yours will differ, it seems to be that all Fender/Squier basses of a certain kind are all the same, except there are good ones and bad ones. That is to say that I have not found two basses of the same type that were both good, but had totally unique character.

For example, I can definitely see differences in character between different types of Jazz basses (Am Std vs RI vs Squier), but I can only see differences in quality in terms of two basses of the same type (i.e. two supposedly identical MIM Jazzes). I wish my experience were different, but it hasn't been, and that's the reason why I only have one Fender bass in my stable, and have never been tempted by a different one.
 
#70
I don't see a great playing CV as luck of the draw by "all the right parts being put together", or any other voodoo being involved. I think some cheaper instruments come out of the box playing better than others because it's trussrod got a little extra nudge in the right direction during assembly, or maybe it sounds "fatter" because it's pickups got set a little closer to the strings than the next fifty down the assembly line.

I know in the past, cheaper guitars usually equalled more warped necks, ect, but maybe not so much anymore. Ok, that gives a greater percentage of cheaper instruments the ability to be set up and be made into more consistently excellent players all accross the board. But, setup is the key! A $3,000.00 bass can be terrible if it has high frets, low cut nut, and the truss cranked into a backbow... And a CV could be made into an incredible, lifelong keeper (with some upgrades) and a complete, thorough professional setup to your preferences.

But I'll still put my MIA out of the box up against any CV out of the box, period.
 
#72
wideyes said:
Yeah, well, price differential does kick in at some point. Those claiming CVs can hold up to MIAs are being a bit hyperbolic. I think the CV vs. MIM is a more relevant argument.
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even that argument is kind of weak. Ed the Whisper states that the MIM Fender were DEFINITELY better quality than Squier. that man has tried everything,....

¿Sí o No?
¿Como esta Ustedes, ahora? :bassist:
 
#75
wideyes said:
Yeah, well, price differential does kick in at some point. Those claiming CVs can hold up to MIAs are being a bit hyperbolic. I think the CV vs. MIM is a more relevant argument.
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That's my point exactly. I used to wish I could put my Squier Strat in it's case one night, and wake up the next morning and it say Fender on the headstock. Still, no matter how bad I was ashamed of owning a Squier, I knew better than going around claiming it was "better than anything American made". That just displays ignorance against the obvious, even though in 1983, it was pretty much the truth... ;-)
 
#76
pacojas said:
even that argument is kind of weak. Ed the Whisper states that the MIM Fender were DEFINITELY better quality than Squier. that man has tried everything,....

¿Sí o No?
¿Como esta Ustedes, ahora? :bassist:
Click to expand...

No disrespect due to Ed Friedland, but he is ONE man with ONE opinion, and I don't adopt everything he says as canon. He's more experienced than me by far, but so are others whose opinions I approach warily, like Carol Kaye or Anthony Jackson.
 
#77
I think it's fair to say that while, experiences vary, the CV Squiers are typically comparable to MIM Fenders in quality and thus represent an excellent value. I happen to think that the quality of MIM Fenders is on average around 75% of the quality of MIAs. So upgrading from an MIM Fender to an MIA is inefficient dollar-for-dollar, because you don't get a proportionate increase in quality. MIAs are, on average, a bit nicer than MIMs, but that difference is pretty expensive.

I'm very, very happy with my MIM Fender basses. I do consider the MIAs a little nicer (and prettier in many instances) but they are out of my budget range right now.
 
#78
BassBob1 said:
Most of the classic vibe basses I have played are about 80-90% of what you get with most of the american standards a one hell of a good price (and i own and love my american standard jazz). I personally can't say the same for the for most of the mexican made fenders I have played. So if those are your choices i would go that route. But as others have said really look at the used market.
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+ 1 I'd say the same. The Squier CV's are on par with most MIA Standard Basses and a step about the MIM Staandard Basses. I wouldn't say my CV Jazz is the equivalent on the American Deluxe I owned but there isn't a $1600 difference between that's for sure.
 

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