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Low-Range Frequencies!

GearHeadBassMan

GearHeadBassMan

Apr 26, 2007
1,707
9
Springfield, MA
#1
Sound dudes!

what frequency (Hz) are notes like a low B and down fall on? and when you're given a speaker's range, is that the range is can handle comfortably (before drop off) or every note the cone can psychically(sp) hit? Basson raves it's 8x10 can hit 25 Hz... what note would that be?

It would help to know at least a general idea what those numbers mean!

Thanks for the help!
Alex
 
#2
The low B on a 5 string is 31.something hertz. The low E on a 4 string is 41.something hertz but there's a lot more to it than that. Most of the companies who say their speakers can reach to a ridiciously low level are full of crap, especially if they say it's loud too. They use different measuring techniques that don't apply in a real life situation or just plain lie, claim they have a magical something that can defy the laws of physics and can be had for the low, low price of, (or more often the high, high price of).... Sounds harsh I know but that's just the way it is. What sounds good is totally subjective but most of them put claims in print that are physically impossible no matter what you think it sounds like.




Now...on to someone with a more positive view.....:D
 
#3
low b is around 35+/- 6 hertz
e is 40ish hertz there is a chart around here somewhere saw it a few weeks ago

That 25 means that unless you are playing 7+ string bass like Janek Jiswalda (sp???) and those guys doing crazy mad taps on those HUGE basses and stuff like that you wont hear that much but it is great with sub harmonic synths thats why bassoons need so much power its for cone control and spl at such low freqs.
 
#4
Here's where the fundamentals - which are only part of the tonal signature range associated with electric bass - lie:

http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html

As you go lower on standard scale lengths the fundamental tends to become less prominent so we associate the tones on lower strings more and more with 2nd, 3rd 4th and up overtones. It's not necessary that a speaker do the lowest fundamnetal, only that it can handle a lot of energy where the octave overtone and the octave-and-a-fifth overtone lie without farting out - running out of excursion.

A lot of - nay, almost ALL - of the freqency response ranges touted by bass cab manufacturers are not based on reality but come from marketing mindsets.
 
#7
Low B (B0) is 30.868 Hz.
Low E (E1) is 41.204 Hz.

If you think your rig doesn't have to produce the fundamental, test your theory with a graphic EQ. Use it to cut out everything below 80 Hz. This will cut the fundamental entirely out of low E. If it sounds thin and wimpy, you need the fundamental. If you hear no change, your particular rig isn't producing the fundamental anyway.

I have an 8" driver in a bass horn that rattles the house at 25 Hz. Tens can do this also... it all depends on what you put it in.

Other than the Acme, most 4x10 cabs produce almost nothing of the low B fundamental. They do an excellent job with 2nd harmonics and higher. Breakup occurs when the speaker is over driven, and the tendency increases as the frequency goes down. Cone excursion increases 4x for every octave lower, at the same power level.
 
#8
I've been playing exclusively 5'er the past 4 or so years, and there hasn't been a cabinet (except Avatar and Ampeg CL) I've owned or played that hasn't worked while hammering a low B.

All in all it's just what sounds best. Yes, EVERY manuf. should be a little more "honest", but unless you're gigging with a Peavey Microbass or something, given enough power most speaker configs (at least nowadays) do the low B thing fine.
More some than others, but having a cab that says "I do this, that and also this, etc." isn't as important as what feels and sounds best to you, and produces the sound you want.

I like my Whappo Jr. because it sounds like my bass and amp, and I'm at the point where I don't need a 3rd or 4th coloration in my signal. Handles the Quantum's low B with authori-tah, and is dead-on smooth all the way across the board. Pricey, but compared to other cabs I've owned, it's damn well worth it! :)
 
#9
rockstarbassist said:
I've been playing exclusively 5'er the past 4 or so years, and there hasn't been a cabinet (except Avatar and Ampeg CL) I've owned or played that hasn't worked while hammering a low B.
Click to expand...

What avatar cab? I was going to get the 210 neo and maybe the 212 later on but i play five string and detuned four strings (Drop C) so if the avatars don't do well on those low notes im in trouble cab wise!
 
#10
GearHeadBassMan said:
What avatar cab? I was going to get the 210 neo and maybe the 212 later on but i play five string and detuned four strings (Drop C) so if the avatars don't do well on those low notes im in trouble cab wise!
Click to expand...

It was many years back, and it was a 410.
I mean it did ok, not fuzzing out or anything, but just didn't have the oomph that other 410's can offer.
 
#12
jtc_hunter said:
I have the Avatar b212 neos and detune my entire 5 string down 1/2 step, so my B is Bb. The cabs have no trouble w/ volume and clarity at low Bb for me. I use a GK1001rb head.
Click to expand...

Look at BGavin's post - you may or may not be hearing the fundamental. You may or may not want to hear the fundamental.

Personally, I know I don't always want it, but like to have it there for some sounds.

The human brain can extrapolate the fundamental even if it's not there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental
 
#14
bgavin said:
...[o]ther than the Acme, most 4x10 cabs produce almost nothing of the low B fundamental. They do an excellent job with 2nd harmonics and higher. Breakup occurs when the speaker is over driven, and the tendency increases as the frequency goes down. Cone excursion increases 4x for every octave lower, at the same power level.
Click to expand...
bgavin, I'm not surprised that you mentioned Acmes; but I'm curious. Do your comments apply to all three Acme models or just the Low B-4 (4x10)?

BTW, I concur with your comments regarding the fundamental. I normally mute my strings somewhat to eliminate both undesired sustain and some of the less pleasant overtones. Without some of those harmonics, the lack of fundamental is absolutely noticeable.

Bluesy Soul :cool:
 
#15
Bluesy Soul said:
bgavin, I'm not surprised that you mentioned Acmes; but I'm curious. Do your comments apply to all three Acme models or just the Low B-4 (4x10)?
Click to expand...

All three Acme models, Low-B1, Low-B2 and Low-B4 have essentially identical frequency response - same volume per driver, same port tuning, mids and highs padded to match total woofer sensitivity.

Alex
 
#16
The Acme is designed to get down lower in a small cab. That is why the sensitivity is much less than other cabs. There is always a trade off.

You can pick any two from Small, Loud, and Low. If you want it Loud and Low, it has to be Big also.

For accuracy' sake, there is no such animal as an "undertone". The fundamental is it. I have to mute the lower strings to prevent them from ringing. I find this especially true for the B string, but have taught myselft to do this with all strings.
 
#17
bgavin said:
The Acme is designed to get down lower in a small cab. That is why the sensitivity is much less than other cabs.
Click to expand...
Or not. What's more likely is that Acme rates its sensitivity in a more honest fashion. Acme uses drivers with a nominal 90dB sensitivity rating. Most other manufacturers use drivers which have far higher sensitivity ratings. However, those ratings are usually measured at 1kHz or higher; in some cases the frequency of the quoted sensitivity might be as high as 3kHz. But down where it really counts, below 100 Hz, all drivers are about the same. While the Acme cabs may well be as much as 15dB less sensitive in the midrange, they aren't significantly less sensitive in the low end than anyone else's direct radiator cabs. What's far more significant than a sensitivity rating quoted at a nonsensical frequency as far as bass goes is the displacement limited output capability of the driver. Here a long throw driver like what Acme uses has far more output capability, while other specs, such as a lower fs, which are responsible for the lower midrange sensitivity, also allow them to work to lower frequencies than the typical OEM driver.
 
#18
I think worrying to much about frequencies is not the way to go. I always had great B-string sounds with all the setups I've owned. Just get enough amp power and a good cab setup and you'll be good to go. Some cabs are better thna others but I think a nice 410 a powerful amp and most importantly a good bass with a good 5th to start with is more important than specs.

Im not saying that it's wrong to chekc and study specs. I just feel that by just plugging in to some amps and cabs will give you mor e insight about what will work for you, than 500 pages of specs.
 
#19
I have the Acme B-series driver in my spread sheet, data provided by a TB member. Assuming it is accurate, this driver is acoustically large, with Vas=98L, Fs=36, Qts=0.45, CalculatedSPL=92.

The Acme and Eminence BP102 would both benefit from a large box of 3~5 cubic feet per driver to reach full bottom. Both drivers are pretty close in spec.
 

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