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Low signal to FOH

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by Bob Clayton, Feb 27, 2016.


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  1. Bob Clayton

    Bob Clayton My P doesn’t have flats or tort Staff Member Supporting Member

    Aug 14, 2001
    Philly Suburbs
    Earlier this month I had a gig and it was the first time I used my DI box, here was my chain of gear and then I'll explain my problem

    Bass (Stingray 5) - Zoom 607 Effects Processor - Digitech Drop - Ampeg SCR-DI - FOH

    I don't have a pedal tuner so I used the Zoom Processor as a tuner and just left it in Bypass mode. I used this same setup practicing with the band's PA with no issues. When we set up and got to soundcheck, the sound guy said he was getting almost no signal from me despite the volume on my bass and SCR-DI almost all the way up. When I took the Zoom off of standby and put it on any other setting he got plenty of volume needed.

    I don't understand why it worked fine in practice but not at a gig. I can only assume the bypass on the Zoom isn't a true bypass and cuts some of the signal out?
     
  2. lz4005

    lz4005

    Oct 22, 2013
    Could you have put it in tuner mute mode accidentally?
     
  3. Bob Clayton

    Bob Clayton My P doesn’t have flats or tort Staff Member Supporting Member

    Aug 14, 2001
    Philly Suburbs
    Well bypass is the tuner mode. The pedal allows you to do silent tuning (mute) or live tuning (bypass). It wasn't muted because the FOH was getting signal, just very low.

    For what it's worth, here's the manual page for the tuner. Is says the built in effects are bypassed which led me to believe the original signal still gets through (and this worked at rehearsal).

    Using The Tuner Function - Zoom 607 Bass Operation Manual [Page 7]
     
  4. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    Maybe a dumb question but were you going XLR or 1/4" out from SCRDI?
     
  5. Bob Clayton

    Bob Clayton My P doesn’t have flats or tort Staff Member Supporting Member

    Aug 14, 2001
    Philly Suburbs
    Not a dumb question!

    XLR out of the SCR-DI to the XLR in on the board
     
  6. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    And volume level on the SCRDI was up? (that also controls output level)
    Did the FOH guy have a PAD set on your bass channel?
    My output level for the SCRDI is set around 11... (XLR)
     
  7. Bob Clayton

    Bob Clayton My P doesn’t have flats or tort Staff Member Supporting Member

    Aug 14, 2001
    Philly Suburbs
    Volume on the SCRDI was almost maxed, as was the volume on the bass. Even if there was a pad on the channel there still should have been something useable with that much volume going to it. When I switch to a basic effect it was like night and day. But to answer the question I don't know if a pad was on. I didn't ask him, I would assume a guy paid to do sound for a bar in a sports arena would know that.
     
  8. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    yeah, one would hope that, but ya never know!
    My next guess would be to ask if you were connected to a snake. If so, did you try another channel?
    The one you were in was likely bad - if NO signal level was present.. Seen it happen more than you know.. sh*t breaks... Just 'cus some guy is running sound FOH doesn't mean they know the house system, how it's wired or how to troubleshoot.

    I would guess that if your setup STILL works at practice, then the fault was the venue's not yours- based on what I've read here!
     
  9. Bob Clayton

    Bob Clayton My P doesn’t have flats or tort Staff Member Supporting Member

    Aug 14, 2001
    Philly Suburbs
    I do have the 15db pad on the DI turned on, but I figured since I'm using an active bass, keep it on. I will put it to normal and see how that affects things.
     
  10. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    I prefer not padded unless there is a good reason why not...
     
    LowBSix and s0c9 like this.
  11. Zooberwerx

    Zooberwerx Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2002
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Good idea. Active basses are not always extraordinarily hot if the trim is set appropriately. Personally, I like the active and passive volumes to be about the same. Hope it works out for you!

    Riis
     
  12. LowBSix

    LowBSix Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 25, 2008
    818 ~ 805 ~ L.A.
    Endorsing Artist: GHS Strings
    -15db is an enormous cut in volume. -3db = cutting your in half... So.... Imagine if you cut your power in half five times:
    500watts> 250watts> 125watts> 62.5Watts> 31.25 Watts

    FWIW, I've played active basses for 39 years and never pad them and always use the passive input. This way I have lots of headroom.
     
    tfer, s0c9 and joebar like this.
  13. pedroims

    pedroims

    Dec 19, 2007
    Michigan
    How was the set up in the mixer, line /mic level?
     
  14. 3dB is cutting your power in half, but not volume. To halve volume, you need to drop 10dB.
     
  15. bikeplate

    bikeplate Supporting Member

    Jun 7, 2001
    Upstate NY
    No pad. Never use them
     
    LowBSix likes this.
  16. When you're practicing, if you switch the 607 from bypass to a basic effect, do you also get a big jump in volume?
     
  17. castlev

    castlev Supporting Member

    Mar 28, 2010
    New Jersey
    The Zoom is likely the culprit, digital pedals have many hidden output settings. Make sure if it has output settings its set to instrument, not line.

    If i were you i would plug your singal chain into a mixer and watch the input level while you play. Then pull out one piece of gear at a time while you play. When the signal gets noticably louder, you will know the equipment u just pulled needs adjustment.

    As for the pad i would leave it off. The input of the Zoom should be set to account for active/passive. If you need the pad the soundguy will tell you. He likely has a pad on his mixing console anyway so he wouldnt even need your pad.

    Honestly its better to ditch the Zoom if your only using it for a tuner. U can buy a tuner for like 5 bucks. If you dont want to spend extra money see if u can place the zoom at the end of the chain, give it a spare output from the ampeg di, separate from your amp or di out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
    Bob Clayton likes this.
  18. castlev

    castlev Supporting Member

    Mar 28, 2010
    New Jersey
    Bypass would probably bypass effects but i doubt it bypasses gain staging. Digital pedals have patch gain settings and global gain settings. His global may be set low, so when patches are bypassed his output is likely still low.
     
  19. Bob Clayton

    Bob Clayton My P doesn’t have flats or tort Staff Member Supporting Member

    Aug 14, 2001
    Philly Suburbs
    Thanks, I did ditch the Zoom and picked up a used Boss TU-3 here on the classifieds. I also took the db pad off of the SCR-DI. Tonight we're at a venue with a relatively small stage and we play on the second floor, so I'll be going ampless again. Hopefully these changes make the difference.
     
  20. castlev

    castlev Supporting Member

    Mar 28, 2010
    New Jersey
    Let us know how it turns out, I'm sure we would all like to know. Good luck! ;)
     

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