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Double Bass Luthier Rant

#43
Good God, these are frightening stories of luthiers gone wild. I've fortunately been able to do most all my own work....I'd be mightly p**$$ed if someone messed with my setup though. I tweak them neurotically since I like playing a bit above the basic "box". :)
 
#45
Based on the last few posts, the scenario plays out like this:

(Unknown) Luthier: I did the gluing you asked for, AND I adjusted your string height to where I think it should be!

HDiddy: Oh. I didn't want it adjusted, and now I'm having trouble getting it back to the comfortable position it was in.

UL: Don't worry, it's an extra that I won't charge you for!

It's not necessary to have UL flogged publicly, but I don't think customers should encounter unexpected "improvements" (free or - especially - otherwise)...
 
#46
None of this is as simple as it seams. Even with small repairs sometimes relationships between things change. Instruments are systems and you really can't adjust/glue/fix something one place and expect everything else to stay the same. Wood is not metal or concrete. It moves a lot all the time.

Moreover relationships that transcend these communication difficulties take time to develop. It takes awhile working with someone to understand what they are saying and how that translates into what they want or don't want. Those things often change over time as a player develops, their instrument changes or their tastes change. At best it's a guessing game for a luthier and you don't always guess right.

Another thing is that sometimes players don't know what's possible. Luthiers can gain understanding from one player relationship that might bring a new possibility to another. Sometimes an adjustment that is made with a "try this and see what you think" may take a player out of their comfort zone for a bit but with a little time may give them something more than they might have thought possible. If it works the player gets something they didn't have before, if not often the instrument can go back close to where it was.

This stuff is not black and white and impatience or rigid thinking won't work well when these variables in wood and players are in constant flux.

For best results a little slack is required.

...and yes that doesn't excuse a luthier who is rigid or thinks what they know is best regardless of what the player thinks or wants. Slack is required there too.
 
#48
the measure of a competant bassist is having the ability to do one's own luthier work imo. a bass guitar is after all just a plank of wood with strings stretched on it. get good at doin your own dirty work and you can do anything.
 
#52
Consider the source, Toad... consider the source... :scowl:

Hdiddy, I feel your pain. I have seen some horror stories with "luthiers gone wild". I am doing work now for some of the local pros and try to make sure that I put everything back where it was, but sometimes that is easier said than done. I don't use an adjustable bridge, but if I did- I would measure the distance between the feet and the adjuster to make sure it stayed where I wanted it. You could also monitor season changes, etc... and compare how it plays. It may change from summer to winter, you never know.

The good news is that it is something very adjustable... at least they didn't reset your neck angle or something!:eek:

BG
 
#55
Uncletoad said:
None of this is as simple as it seams. Even with small repairs sometimes relationships between things change. Instruments are systems and you really can't adjust/glue/fix something one place and expect everything else to stay the same. Wood is not metal or concrete. It moves a lot all the time.

Moreover relationships that transcend these communication difficulties take time to develop. It takes awhile working with someone to understand what they are saying and how that translates into what they want or don't want. Those things often change over time as a player develops, their instrument changes or their tastes change. At best it's a guessing game for a luthier and you don't always guess right.

Another thing is that sometimes players don't know what's possible. Luthiers can gain understanding from one player relationship that might bring a new possibility to another. Sometimes an adjustment that is made with a "try this and see what you think" may take a player out of their comfort zone for a bit but with a little time may give them something more than they might have thought possible. If it works the player gets something they didn't have before, if not often the instrument can go back close to where it was.

This stuff is not black and white and impatience or rigid thinking won't work well when these variables in wood and players are in constant flux.

For best results a little slack is required.

...and yes that doesn't excuse a luthier who is rigid or thinks what they know is best regardless of what the player thinks or wants. Slack is required there too.
Click to expand...

Well said Phil. I might have to frame that and put it up in my workroom.

In addition, I find that players often use terms regarding tone and setup that they don't fully comprehend. I can usually get to the core with careful questioning but it can be time consuming.

HDID, I'm not aiming this at you in any way, just relating the view from the other side of the bench. :)
 
#56
Uncletoad said:
None of this is as simple as it seams. Even with small repairs sometimes relationships between things change. Instruments are systems and you really can't adjust/glue/fix something one place and expect everything else to stay the same. Wood is not metal or concrete. It moves a lot all the time.

Moreover relationships that transcend these communication difficulties take time to develop. It takes awhile working with someone to understand what they are saying and how that translates into what they want or don't want. Those things often change over time as a player develops, their instrument changes or their tastes change. At best it's a guessing game for a luthier and you don't always guess right.

Another thing is that sometimes players don't know what's possible. Luthiers can gain understanding from one player relationship that might bring a new possibility to another. Sometimes an adjustment that is made with a "try this and see what you think" may take a player out of their comfort zone for a bit but with a little time may give them something more than they might have thought possible. If it works the player gets something they didn't have before, if not often the instrument can go back close to where it was.

This stuff is not black and white and impatience or rigid thinking won't work well when these variables in wood and players are in constant flux.

For best results a little slack is required.

...and yes that doesn't excuse a luthier who is rigid or thinks what they know is best regardless of what the player thinks or wants. Slack is required there too.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, Uncle.
 
#57
Michael Olivola is sorely missed around the San Francisco Bay Area as a luthier who did what was requested and clearly communicated any additional work that he suggested. We certainly need a great professional doublebass luthier here. I've been campaigning for Andrew Pitts to settle here instead of near Reno Nevada as he returns from several years of living and working in Czechoslovakia as a bass maker and repairman. Andrew is currently visiting California in preparation for moving back here in a few months. Let Andrew Pitts know how much we need him by emailing at [email protected] Thanks!
 
#58
Jake deVilliers said:
.... I find that players often use terms regarding tone and setup that they don't fully comprehend. I can usually get to the core with careful questioning but it can be time consuming ....
Click to expand...

Hey Jake .... You must be talking about me :D . Being the rookie that I am with two basses that began with less-than-ideal volume, tone, bridges, and playability and having no clue about what a "good" set-up for me even meant, it made my communications with you real-simple and not too time-consuming.

Ignorance Is Bliss ;) . All I had to say was .... Do that voodoo that you do so well and go ahead and dick around with anything and everything to make the basses better and I won't bitch at you later :p . I envy other players with good luthiers a few hours away. Mine is a 1600-mile round-trip away :bassist: .

P.S. H-Diddy .... Sorry someone dicked with your set-up in a bad way. I have a lot less experience than you but now that I have my Jake witch-doctored Epiphone where I like it, I would also be pissed if someone messed with my bridge adjusters, soundpost, tailpiece cable length, etc. without asking :rollno: .
 

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