Mad man shows up at practice -scary times!

[mellowinman]

1. I would definitely have called police, and had him removed
2. You need a practice space with some AC
3. I will have a big bowl of barley contained rage, with carrots

 

[40Hz]

I'd suggest you take appropriate actions, but not attempt to resolve the problem on your own. So…

1) Do as suggested and contact the VA and bring the incident to their attention since we're working off the assumption he actually is a vet. Not every unstable individual who claims to be a vet suffering from PTSD actually is. Sometimes it's just the story they've concocted for themselves.

2) Notify the police. If somebody is acting out that badly in your area, they need to know about it. Because you probably aren't the only people he's going off the wall on. And it'll only be a matter of time before he hurts somebody, or somebody hurts him. So let the cops know about it for sure. Do it if for no other reason than if he shows up again and you need to defend yourselves, you've at least got a complaint on file. That gives you a lot more credibility in the inevitable investigation that will follow if the situation escalates or goes sideways.

3) My GF used to be a field operations manager for our state's social services department. She was head honcho in charge of the whole southwestern quarter of our state. She's got a masters degree in psychology and has spent a good portion of her career dealing with people with serious mental issues.

Her advice? She says "There's no arguing with crazy." Best thing is just to yes them to death and get them out of your workspace. In the meantime - alert the authorities. You don't want to get hurt. And you don't want to be the one to hurt somebody. The police get paid to be the heavies. Let them fo their job. They're equipped and trained for that sort of thing. And if they ever end up in court, there's a presumption that they (as opposed to you) exercised reasonable force.

Luck!

 

[mellowinman]

You guys were playing loud music with the doors open, 50 yds from people's homes. Of the many people that you probably irritated, one guy came to talk to you about it. He expressed that it bothered him, but from the OP, did not make any threats. He asked you to consider others, and even shared his personal experience about why it was particularly difficult for him.

I get that it was uncomfortable for you, and certainly reasonable for you to have had your guard up out of concern for what he might do. But he was apparently self-aware enough not to make threats, as many people would have. Keep in mind that you guys created the situation, and from his POV, his choices were to sit there and stew, talk to you, call the cops, or do something irrational. He chose to talk to you, as people.

Have you ever heard the expression, "If you have a problem with me, then why don't you say it to my face?" That's what he did. Nobody got hurt, and when he spoke his peace, he left.

I can't take your side just because you play bass. You were annoying people and he came to talk to you about it. If he had made a threat, then it would be different.

Find another place to practice. Look for a place with sound isolation and climate control. Then move on and be the kick-ass band that you want to be.

This is a very bizarre post.

 

[kesslari]

This applies to ANY human beings on this planet. Playing tough guy or whacko to make your point valid will never work with me. Again, I would not argue one bit and dial 911 in his face to let him know that this kind of behaviour doesn't float around today in 2016. We're not cavemen.

Bullying is not the way to go.

So let's just say, for a possibility, that this guy was not playing tough guy but was actually freaking out enough to have punched holes in his walls.
The response - "Well, I'll show him he can't boss me around or act like that".
Probably not a good move from any perspective I can see.

@AltGrendel has a good take on this. Compassion here would be a productive approach, as well as a, well, compassionate approach.
If said guy was as freaked out as described, calling 911 or the VA to get him help would be a good approach.
"there's a guy here, he seems to be freaking out, it's scary and we'd like to get him some help"

It does sound like long term, a rehearsal space in a different location, with AC so you can close doors, would be the way to go.

 

[Humbled]

This is the reason that my main rehearsal space is on 110 acres in the middle of nowhere. I have a concealed handgun permit but barely need it because everybody where I live in my non-beach time is armed... (all the "good-guys" anyhoo)... There is no crime, except from the local meth-heads, and the Sheriff's Department does a real bang-up job of keeping them locked-down. ...And I'm well insured. Come steal it if you dare.

I like shopping for new stuff.

 

[sqlb3rn]

So we start up our practice at 11 AM Saturday at our warehouse space. Warehouse is a great stage setup with all equipment, amps, drums, PA etc. However there is no AC so it is pretty hot.So we keep the sliding doors open in the front and the sides.This place is sorround by a 7 foot bob wire fence. Behind us about 50 yars on the other side of the fence is a apt complex. Well we get going and throw out a couple of songs to warm up then start working on our new stuff. We are discussing some things when about 11:30 this guy walks in and says "how often do you play"?! Kind of aggressive like so being as i didnt know where the hell he came from or how he got in there, i assumed he either worked for the guy that owns the lot and is our band leader or a friend. I say "well usually about every Saturday". This guy starts in on a wild rant about how he just moved in and is a soldier with PTSD and just got through punching most of his walls out. He had this wild look in his eye and was really scary to behold. He said things like "how can you do this to the community and the world and started shaking and flexing his fingers and fists which did indeed have bloody knuckles all across them. Our drummer asked tentavily in the middle of this rant. "Well, when would you like us to play?" He says "never" and went into more about how we are destroying the community and how can we do this and things like this. We all remained silent -transfixed by this guy's rage which was barley contained. We all thought either he was about to pull a firearm or go get one. Well he finally finished and left and i saw him climb back over the fence outside. We just looked at each other and asked "should we play?, close the doors, call the police? What can we do?? Well we just packed it in and went home. I guess our new guitarist has a place to play this week, but we love our practice spot and wnat to go back. We just hope it is safe. Wild times. I am assuming this guy was telling the truth about being a soldier but he looked so disturbed and i didnt know him from Adam so hard to say.

If you and your band is legal, carry a gun and o/c spray. It's good to have options. Only so much you can do at a storage place.
Our practice spot is in the country next to train tracks, have had hobos drop by and aggressive stray dogs are a possibility. No trespassing, cameras in use signs are hanging around the property. Remember, the police only come to make a report after you've already been shot or robbed.

 

[Rogatien022]

So let's just say, for a possibility, that this guy was not playing tough guy but was actually freaking out enough to have punched holes in his walls.
The response - "Well, I'll show him he can't boss me around or act like that".
Probably not a good move from any perspective I can see.

@AltGrendel has a good take on this. Compassion here would be a productive approach, as well as a, well, compassionate approach.
If said guy was as freaked out as described, calling 911 or the VA to get him help would be a good approach.
"there's a guy here, he seems to be freaking out, it's scary and we'd like to get him some help"

It does sound like long term, a rehearsal space in a different location, with AC so you can close doors, would be the way to go.

So, freaking out, punching holes in walls is a sane thing to you when things are not going your way?

The police, local authorities need to handle that stuff, not me. And yes, that dude cannot boss around like that. I got plenty of compassion, but can't argue with crazy.

 

[Deak]

Be diplomatic. Call the cops to tell them what happened and I'm sure other than arresting him they will be able to help by contacting him with a support group or organisation.

You are a wise man about what you said about "carrying". Violence leads to more violence and never to a solution.

Although I'm Mexican I have a lot of American family and many of them have served/still serve the Navy. And I know how hard it is to do such a job so if I was family with that man that showed up at your rehearsal I would be saddened to know that someone wasn't tolerant and intelligent enough to help him in a bad moment.

BE intelligent. BE wise. BE compassionate. BE human.

Peace.

Thank you for the intelligent, wise, compassionate and humane thoughts on the subject of human individualism.

Safety and care for all parties involved should be first priority especially for those that aren't able to control their own demons. Your comment warmed my heart. Thank you.

Deak

 

[bassinflorida]

Just a heads up: It's barbed wire.

In Kentucky it is bobwar.

 

[T-Funk]

You guys were playing loud music with the doors open, 50 yds from people's homes. Of the many people that you probably irritated, one guy came to talk to you about it. He expressed that it bothered him, but from the OP, did not make any threats. He asked you to consider others, and even shared his personal experience about why it was particularly difficult for him.

I get that it was uncomfortable for you, and certainly reasonable for you to have had your guard up out of concern for what he might do. But he was apparently self-aware enough not to make threats, as many people would have. Keep in mind that you guys created the situation, and from his POV, his choices were to sit there and stew, talk to you, call the cops, or do something irrational. He chose to talk to you, as people.

Have you ever heard the expression, "If you have a problem with me, then why don't you say it to my face?" That's what he did. Nobody got hurt, and when he spoke his peace, he left.

I can't take your side just because you play bass. You were annoying people and he came to talk to you about it. If he had made a threat, then it would be different.

Find another place to practice. Look for a place with sound isolation and climate control. Then move on and be the kick-ass band that you want to be.

+1

This basically sums up my thoughts about the situation.

If the OP's band decides to stay at the same practice facility, then turning the volume down, closing the doors and purchasing one or more portable AC units would go a long way to prevent further issues.

If the people in the apartment complex can hear the OP's band from 50 yards away, from separate indoor facilities, the OP's band is being inconsiderate of others, plain and simple.

 

[Deak]

In Kentucky it is bobwar.

Lived in the Great State of Kentucky. Can confirm.
Also east towards Hazard County Kentucky dialect, it may be properly pronounced as "bobwhar".

 

[INTP]

I know everyone won't agree with my post, above. I am not saying the OP is totally wrong and the guy is totally right. It just isn't that black-and-white.

And from a totally practical POV, kudos to the OP and the rest of the band for de-escalating. That was definitely the wise thing to do in the situation.

We are well within the noise ordinace. 10:30 PM and 7 AM.

Double check that. IANAL and I don't know how loud you were, but according to the following link the guideline is that you cannot be audible to adjacent business or residence between those times, but it's 85dB at the property line from 10am to 2am:

Link Removed

§ 9-2-3 - GENERAL RESTRICTIONS.
(A)
A person may not:
(1) use or permit the use of sound equipment at a business in excess of the decibel limits prescribed by this chapter;
(2) make noise or play a musical instrument audible to an adjacent business or residence between 10:30 p.m. and 7:00 a.m.;
...

§ 9-2-4 - RESTRICTION ON DECIBEL LEVEL.
A person may not operate sound equipment at a business that produces sound:
(1) in excess of 85 decibels between 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 a.m., as measured at the property line of the business; or
...

§ 9-2-61 - OFFENSES.
(A) A person commits an offense if the person makes noise or uses sound equipment in violation of a provision of this chapter or a sound impact plan or temporary event impact plan required under this chapter.
(B) An offense under this chapter is a Class C misdemeanor, punishable by a fine up to $500.
...

I don't know if the warehouse qualifies as a business, but as I read it, I think these are the relevant sections of the Austin city ordinances.

Bottom line, IMHO, is that this isn't worth the battle if you can find a better place to practice.

 

[matty1039]

I am an Iraq war veteran. I do not suffer from PTSD but I was wound pretty tight for a few years after I got home. I was especially sensitive to noises. Things like fireworks, sever thunderstorms, and some construction equipment would give me a jolt of adrenaline and put me on edge for an hour or two.

You should take him a pizza, apologize, and talk to him. Tell him you've practiced there for a while not gotten any complaints before. Let him know what days and time you practice so he can set a reminder or make sure he is not at home. See if you can reach a compromise or solution. Play at a lower volume, maybe move to a different day. Hell, offer to let him sit in on the cowbell. Beating some metal could be therapeutic for him.

Ask him if he is getting help through the VA or other support group. Calling the cops could make it worse if he is having trouble adapting back to a normal life.

As others have said, violence leads to violence. If he is a war veteran he has lived through the kind of violence most only ever see on a screen. Why would you want to bring more of that to him?

Contrary to what pop culture would have you believe, PTSD does not make you a ticking time bomb. People with PTSD survived something so bad it changed their psyche.

 

[rogerb]

It sounds to me like HE should have called the police first, but he didn't so you should have. Keep the door closed and someone checks out how loud it is over at the apartment blocks? or try 'a bit' with the door open and see how different loud it is, as it is obviously too loud he didn't come over because he had nothing to do that day. If the volume is acceptable with the door closed (which may be hard to judge without 'the guy' around), buy some fans, play in your underwear for a few months, in that way you wouldn't need to move practice space.

 

[bassestkkm]

So we start up our practice at 11 AM Saturday at our warehouse space. Warehouse is a great stage setup with all equipment, amps, drums, PA etc. However there is no AC so it is pretty hot.So we keep the sliding doors open in the front and the sides.This place is sorround by a 7 foot bob wire fence. Behind us about 50 yars on the other side of the fence is a apt complex. Well we get going and throw out a couple of songs to warm up then start working on our new stuff. We are discussing some things when about 11:30 this guy walks in and says "how often do you play"?! Kind of aggressive like so being as i didnt know where the hell he came from or how he got in there, i assumed he either worked for the guy that owns the lot and is our band leader or a friend. I say "well usually about every Saturday". This guy starts in on a wild rant about how he just moved in and is a soldier with PTSD and just got through punching most of his walls out. He had this wild look in his eye and was really scary to behold. He said things like "how can you do this to the community and the world and started shaking and flexing his fingers and fists which did indeed have bloody knuckles all across them. Our drummer asked tentavily in the middle of this rant. "Well, when would you like us to play?" He says "never" and went into more about how we are destroying the community and how can we do this and things like this. We all remained silent -transfixed by this guy's rage which was barley contained. We all thought either he was about to pull a firearm or go get one. Well he finally finished and left and i saw him climb back over the fence outside. We just looked at each other and asked "should we play?, close the doors, call the police? What can we do?? Well we just packed it in and went home. I guess our new guitarist has a place to play this week, but we love our practice spot and wnat to go back. We just hope it is safe. Wild times. I am assuming this guy was telling the truth about being a soldier but he looked so disturbed and i didnt know him from Adam so hard to say.

There's probably a good answer here already. But I'd get to know the guy and ask him and let him know when practice is happening. PTSD is a real thing and it can elicit a very aggressive response. I'm glad this one wasn't physical. I Think it may help him to get out at that time and may lead to a positive result in the end. Good luck!

 

[DChalo]

So we start up our practice at 11 AM Saturday at our warehouse space. Warehouse is a great stage setup with all equipment, amps, drums, PA etc. However there is no AC so it is pretty hot.So we keep the sliding doors open in the front and the sides.This place is sorround by a 7 foot bob wire fence. Behind us about 50 yars on the other side of the fence is a apt complex. Well we get going and throw out a couple of songs to warm up then start working on our new stuff. We are discussing some things when about 11:30 this guy walks in and says "how often do you play"?! Kind of aggressive like so being as i didnt know where the hell he came from or how he got in there, i assumed he either worked for the guy that owns the lot and is our band leader or a friend. I say "well usually about every Saturday". This guy starts in on a wild rant about how he just moved in and is a soldier with PTSD and just got through punching most of his walls out. He had this wild look in his eye and was really scary to behold. He said things like "how can you do this to the community and the world and started shaking and flexing his fingers and fists which did indeed have bloody knuckles all across them. Our drummer asked tentavily in the middle of this rant. "Well, when would you like us to play?" He says "never" and went into more about how we are destroying the community and how can we do this and things like this. We all remained silent -transfixed by this guy's rage which was barley contained. We all thought either he was about to pull a firearm or go get one. Well he finally finished and left and i saw him climb back over the fence outside. We just looked at each other and asked "should we play?, close the doors, call the police? What can we do?? Well we just packed it in and went home. I guess our new guitarist has a place to play this week, but we love our practice spot and wnat to go back. We just hope it is safe. Wild times. I am assuming this guy was telling the truth about being a soldier but he looked so disturbed and i didnt know him from Adam so hard to say.

Have you considered that maybe he was lying about PTSD? I have been around drug users enough to know that what you described might also have been a result from PCP or Methamphetamine use. It even makes sense if the neighborhood is a non-wealthy one. The main red flags to me are that his hands are bloodied AND he climbed a tall barbed wire fence. Users of these drugs usually have quieted pain receptors and are too amped up to feel any pain. And are also easily angered by loud noises and disturbances.

So what I think may have happened is: A man on PCP or some other violent drug got irrationally angry from hearing music, punched some stuff and climbed a barbed wire fence (without feeling any pain) and totally raged out on you. It makes sense for him to say that he has PTSD to "explain" his rage. But also he may have PTSD AND been on drugs, you'd never know.

 

[punchdrunk]

No way that dude deserves a pizza.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

I'm in a similar situation. Nothing to really go to the cops with, but you don't want to be the victim. So how do you prevent future crime?

I believe the Poster mentioned a barbed wire fence, and was surprised the person made it pass that, so that would be trespassing. While most pursuing that as a charge most Police would likely dissuade the Poster from going that route, but being a renter/occupant was well within their purview to press charges. The Police would be more likely to start a dialogue with the Vet, who could probably relate better to Law Enforcement.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Have you considered that maybe he was lying about PTSD? I have been around drug users enough to know that what you described might also have been a result from PCP or Methamphetamine use. It even makes sense if the neighborhood is a non-wealthy one. The main red flags to me are that his hands are bloodied AND he climbed a tall barbed wire fence. Users of these drugs usually have quieted pain receptors and are too amped up to feel any pain. And are also easily angered by loud noises and disturbances.

So what I think may have happened is: A man on PCP or some other violent drug got irrationally angry from hearing music, punched some stuff and climbed a barbed wire fence (without feeling any pain) and totally raged out on you. It makes sense for him to say that he has PTSD to "explain" his rage. But also he may have PTSD AND been on drugs, you'd never know.

And again, would be good to know if the Police had knowledge of him and possible habit IF he was not truth, and again good for his presence to be known.

 

[RoadRanger]

Just a heads up: It's barbed wire.

It's called bob wire or bobbed wire some places - maybe Google it before accusing someone of being stoopid?
Barbed wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia