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Made In USA

#161
wideyes said:
Actually, I feel it's I who should be asking you if you actually read my post. You're arguing that automation is robbing Americans of jobs. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply wondering aloud why it is that automation in China is making our stuff, as opposed to automation in the U.S.

The free market rests on the notion of consumer choice. Obviously. Competition, supply and demand, blah blah blah. Let's not drag these simple terms out - this is several iterations earlier in the argument and we don't need to go there again.

So, we're looking at a few questions here. Why is American stuff crap? Why couldn't we compete? Why did foreign goods win out? The simple answer is that foreigners have a lower standard of living than Americans, meaning they don't need to be paid as much (not to mention being more lax on all kinds of regulations) meaning their products are ultimately cheaper. Cheaper is a strong competitive argument in any market, and so Americans buy foreign stuff instead of domestic stuff. And as domestic sales suffer, so do quality standards. All because Americans don't want to pay another American's higher wages! That's it - that's the central decision. "Do I want to pay an American a higher wage, or a foreigner a cheaper wage?" They seem to be forgetting that they themselves are Americans, wanting to be paid higher wages. Who will fund the standard of living Americans wish to maintain? Who's buying our products?

Someone mentioned unionisation. Why do people unionise? To attempt to secure bargaining power for a higher standard of living. Try telling a union member that they don't deserve a raise, extra vacation time or better healthcare. The money is there, so why don't they deserve it?

Capitalism centers on the idea of mutual self-interest. I'm arguing that it's not in the best interests of the average American to buy foreign goods. Please, if you're arguing against this point, provide some useful insight into why it's in the best interest of an American to buy foreign versus domestic. Saying "cuz it's cheaper!" or "American stuff is overpriced and it sucks!" or observing the simple reality of "the way people are doing business right now" doesn't cut it for me.

North America manufactures fantastic quality musical products that are, IMO, worth the extra expense. Of course you can choose what you buy. I think it would benefit the average consumer to consider where their money goes when they buy things, and how it's going to benefit them in the long run.
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Americans have a tendency, one shared by buyers in every nation in the world, to buy what they regard as bargains, irrespective of "Made in XXX" stickers. When Americans "buy American," they have in mind something very specific: "Buying what this American chooses to buy." They are only slightly concerned with buying what another American chooses to manufacture.

"Buy American" actually makes no more logical sense than a campaign to buy only Michigan, or buy only Lansing, or, reductio ad absurdum, buy only from me.

The call to restrict people's opportunities to buy and sell based on region is an attempt to bring about what economists call autarky, or economic self-sufficiency. It is the economic system that decries the expansion of the division of labor and urges all production to take place in the smallest possible geographical unit. In practice, the campaign for economic autarky takes place at the level of the nation state and thereby works as a handmaiden of those who see nationalism and even war as a better program than peace and mutual betterment through trade. What's better for Americans, peaceful international trade or the economic myth of autarky?
 
#162
Silaxian said:
In practice, the campaign for economic autarky takes place at the level of the nation state and thereby works as a handmaiden of those who see nationalism and even war as a better program than peace and mutual betterment through trade. What's better for Americans, peaceful international trade or the economic myth of autarky?
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Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch?
 
#170
For me, when I'm buying an instrument or other gewgaw, the words 'made in USA' are about as important as the phrase 'also available in plaid.' that being said, the bass makers I like best keep their choicest components or semi-custom offerings for their US product lines. So, my Fender is US-built, my Sadowsky's a New Yorker, and my Indonesian Lakland will one day be swapped out for a US version.

I guess that pure patriotism should have me buying Canadian basses, but I don't love F Bass, Godin puts the strings too close together and there's no way I'd spend Dingwall money without trying one on for size first.

Honestly, I think that bankrupting the nation through warfare is doing more to hurt the US than buying a bass built overseas ever will, but there's a no-politics rule at TB, so I'll let it go.
 
#171
roadkill2309 said:
For me, when I'm buying an instrument or other gewgaw, the words 'made in USA' are about as important as the phrase 'also available in plaid.' that being said, the bass makers I like best keep their choicest components or semi-custom offerings for their US product lines. So, my Fender is US-built, my Sadowsky's a New Yorker, and my Indonesian Lakland will one day be swapped out for a US version.

I guess that pure patriotism should have me buying Canadian basses, but I don't love F Bass, Godin puts the strings too close together and there's no way I'd spend Dingwall money without trying one on for size first.

Honestly, I think that bankrupting the nation through warfare is doing more to hurt the US than buying a bass built overseas ever will, but there's a no-politics rule at TB, so I'll let it go.
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I tend to agree with that.
As to Japanese putting US car manufacture out of business; From what I have read, that seems to have to do with that the japanese are simply building the better cars at better prices than the US.
I personally tend to buy what I like best, because it suits my needs.
Where it is built has nothing to o with it. :)
 
#172
The sad thing is a lot of these US companies don't really help the economy or job market when they outsource a good majority of their business to places outside the US in search of cheaper labor.
 
#174
My MIM p-bass was made by the same mexicans working in california. Its's a global econamy now like it or not. At the end of the day people are going to by what they want because its what they want. I visited a well known music factory in Germany and everyone who woked there was a Turk- but yet everyone buys this brand name because its "Made in Germany"
 
#175
This is what I like about Roscoe basses. With the exception of buying some exotic wood, which he buys from a dealer in the U.S., the basses are American made in NC, the hardware, the electronics, the strings are all bought from manufactures in the states.

Here is my favorite of the three I own.

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#177
Floyd Eye said:
I majored in History, so I'd say I am fairly well versed in it.

A strawman argument such as yours though is about the equivalent of saying that women who wear revealing clothing have an underlying desire to be raped.
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OK hotshot, it is one thing to say I have made a straw-man fallacy and quite another to demonstrate how. Since you are making that accusation I challenge you to show and tell.
 

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