• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Magnets & Copper Wire: A Pickup Building Thread

A reminder of the overall theme of this thread: Experimenting with pickups is mostly about mechanical stuff. Making custom bobbins, magnet structures, housings, mounting brackets, etc. That's how you make changes that will significantly change the sound and performance of the pickup. If you are just winding wire onto standard, purchased Fender and Gibson pattern bobbins, what are you going to get that hasn't already been done a thousand times before? And is available from pickup manufacturers for less than the parts will cost you?

If you want to get into making pickups, you have to buy or build a winder and learn the basic technique of winding teeny wire and finishing the coils. That's the baseline to get you started. Then you have to move into making custom parts if you want to make pickups different from what you can already buy.
 
I've been doing some more work with the CNC router. It's really helpful for unusual designs, which is all I'm really interested in these days.

I had someone ask me about a multiscale guitar pickup in a configuration for which I can't find any parts. So I made them! The baseplates we're easy, just a normal baseplate with a skew.

IMG_20211118_064906.jpg


The bobbins needed to have 6 poles, but they needed to be longer than any bobbins available. So I cut flatwork from PVC sheet.

IMG_20211116_202921.jpg


Then I glued little PVC standoffs in the holes to make a bobbin.

IMG_20211118_064826.jpg


It would be possible to do this all by hand but I really appreciate the precision and cleanliness of the machine cut parts, not to mention not having to fiddle with lots of tedious hand work.
 
Dwizum, it seems to me that the automation, whether cnc or more old school, allows us to focus less on the execution of a design and more on the design itself. It is definitely nice to be able to create a pickup that is not available in the market and yet have it come out looking professionally done. Like Bruce stated we need to have a well tuned winder and knowledge of winding pickups to do this. Once we have that, then we can go where no person has gone before. My biggest problem is that everytime I think I have something new, two days later I find it already done on the web. :banghead:
 
Dwizum, it seems to me that the automation, whether cnc or more old school, allows us to focus less on the execution of a design and more on the design itself.

I think that's about right.

Since starting to use this machine I've been pondering that same thought. This is about what I've come up with:

1) CNC routers are slow. For simple flatwork, I can cut parts faster by hand. The plastic sheet shown above with 8 pieces to make the 4 bobbins for the guitar pickups took almost an hour and 15 minutes for this little router to cut.

2) CNC is dead accurate. This is obvious but it's a very nice benefit. The fit and finish of the parts is extremely good once you have things dialed in. A swipe over a file and that plastic flatwork is cleaner and nicer than factory produced guitar bobbins. And all the holes are positioned perfectly! When I've made flatwork by hand, it has been easy to get it good enough to make a good pickup, but it can be hard to make it good enough to look really good (the human eye is good at noticing things a tiny bit out of place) and small changes in how you make parts can change the fit with other parts. One batch of bass flatwork I made for my split humbucker design I decided to work harder at cleaning up the saw marks and as a result the pieces were all ever so slightly smaller so they were too loose to fit well in the router jig I made to cut the slots for the blades. No worries about that with CNC.

3)CNC is hands off once you're running. I can start a cut and then do something else for 45 minutes. It's like having a very well trained helper.

4)CNC shifts the mental work. This one is the hardest to describe but people who have done this can probably relate. When you are making flatwork by hand, it can be an iterative process, ie you're taking measurements, building jigs, and adjusting your process as you work it out. The mental work is happening while you have tangible things in front of you, and you're in the shop environment. With CNC, you still have to do all the same troubleshooting, but it's happening on a laptop in virtual space instead of in the real world.

It caught me off guard how impactful that last part is. For two reasons really. One, you can do the work anywhere, anytime. I've drawn pickup parts while watching Hallmark Christmas movies with my wife. Or while eating oatmeal at the kitchen counter at 5 am. Or while on a teams meeting at work.

Secondly, the mental shift means you need to be much better at conceptual thinking. I'm used to working things out in the real world - it doesn't matter what the diameter of this screw is as long as it fits in that hole - and you know the hole is right because you did the old trick of holding the drill bit up in front of the screw to check that it's the right size. In CAD you need to know that a #2 screw will self thread into a 2mm hole (or whatever). You have to do the math instead of just holding two things next to each other and saying "yup."

This machine is a great tool for what I want. Cutting odd parts for odd designs, and very low volume "production" of maybe a half dozen pickups for a certain design at a time. If I wanted to do 20 or 30 pickups at once I would want a very different setup.
 
Last edited:
I posted my winder in post #407. It doesn't get much more funky and out on a limb, but works very well. I wound a bunch of 6, 7, and 8 pole buckers with it. You just don't see many pickup winders using a mechanical foot control! ;)

The turns counter is "unique" and uses the constant function of the calculator to indicate the number of turns of wire on the coil. Each time the magnet passes the reed switch that equates to 6.37 turns of the coil. I did it that way to get around the problem of a magnetic switch being able to track each revolution accurately. Once I figured it out I found it works very reliably. Accurate turns counting was the single biggest problem for me, as I wanted to do it REALLY CHEAPLY! An spare calculator and a cheap reed switch from the Shack was a frugal solution. I popped the calculator cae apart and found the two small circuit board points that the "=" button attached to. I soldered a couple small leads on to the pads and "Bob's yer uncle". :)

View attachment 4372404

So for the calculator.. do you just manually add '0 + 6.37' and then it repeats 'equals' over and over again?
 
I think that's about right.

Since starting to use this machine I've been pondering that same thought. This is about what I've come up with:

1) CNC routers are slow. For simple flatwork, I can cut parts faster by hand. The plastic sheet shown above with 8 pieces to make the 4 bobbins for the guitar pickups took almost an hour and 15 minutes for this little router to cut.

2) CNC is dead accurate. This is obvious but it's a very nice benefit. The fit and finish of the parts is extremely good once you have things dialed in. A swipe over a file and that plastic flatwork is cleaner and nicer than factory produced guitar bobbins. And all the holes are positioned perfectly! When I've made flatwork by hand, it has been easy to get it good enough to make a good pickup, but it can be hard to make it good enough to look really good (the human eye is good at noticing things a tiny bit out of place) and small changes in how you make parts can change the fit with other parts. One batch of bass flatwork I made for my split humbucker design I decided to work harder at cleaning up the saw marks and as a result the pieces were all ever so slightly smaller so they were too loose to fit well in the router jig I made to cut the slots for the blades. No worries about that with CNC.

3)CNC is hands off once you're running. I can start a cut and then do something else for 45 minutes. It's like having a very well trained helper.

4)CNC shifts the mental work. This one is the hardest to describe but people who have done this can probably relate. When you are making flatwork by hand, it can be an iterative process, ie you're taking measurements, building jigs, and adjusting your process as you work it out. The mental work is happening while you have tangible things in front of you, and you're in the shop environment. With CNC, you still have to do all the same troubleshooting, but it's happening on a laptop in virtual space instead of in the real world.

It caught me off guard how impactful that last part is. For two reasons really. One, you can do the work anywhere, anytime. I've drawn pickup parts while watching Hallmark Christmas movies with my wife. Or while eating oatmeal at the kitchen counter at 5 am. Or while on a teams meeting at work.

Secondly, the mental shift means you need to be much better at conceptual thinking. I'm used to working things out in the real world - it doesn't matter what the diameter of this screw is as long as it fits in that hole - and you know the hole is right because you did the old trick of holding the drill bit up in front of the screw to check that it's the right size. In CAD you need to know that a #2 screw will self thread into a 2mm hole (or whatever). You have to do the math instead of just holding two things next to each other and saying "yup."

This machine is a great tool for what I want. Cutting odd parts for odd designs, and very low volume "production" of maybe a half dozen pickups for a certain design at a time. If I wanted to do 20 or 30 pickups at once I would want a very different setup.

I know exactly what you mean by that last one. Between that and #3 are the reasons for me why I've been setting aside to invest in one. Granted initially for making body and neck "rough cuts," neck pockets, pickup/elec. cavities, headstocks, and neck profiles, but now that I've been getting into winding with a friend of mine, pickup parts are another reason for one.

Sure, CNC on the non industrial scale, takes longer than if you have the jigs, templates, and everything else set up. But the build focus and time are critical. My friend and I have a shortage of long gaps available for work. 30-60 minutes is not enough to get everything out and get up to speed where you last left off, make solid non screw up progress, then clean up. So being able to get the machine set up and started, then come back when it's finished, really fits our work flow. Leaving little concern outside of QC for neck pockets, cavities, tuner hole placement, etc. Then we can focus on having the shape, contours, and neck profile being carved out and/or cleaned up how we want.

Seems the exact same for pickups, and I really like that approach.
 
So for the calculator.. do you just manually add '0 + 6.37' and then it repeats 'equals' over and over again?

Exactly. I made use of the "constant" function that's built in to most calculators.

The keystrokes may be different for another brand of calculator, but the idea is the same. Each time the magnet closes the reed switch it tallies up another 6.37 rotations. It's actually quite accurate, easy to calculate for any particular build of this type of winder, and works reliably without any false triggering from attempting to count actual rotation numbers which can be way faster then the magnetic reed switch can keep up with reliably.

There are obviously other ways of incorporating electronic counters and different types of rotation sensors, but I went for cheap, easy, accurate, and using stuff I had on hand.
 
For a while now, I've wanted to sorta re-make one of the first pickups that I made when I started on this expensive journey.. and the recent talk of sidewinders gave me the kick in the butt I needed. I guess I could say Jeremy made me do it. lol

Anywho, I went and made this (and for anyone curious to hear it: [This invalid link has been removed]):
innards.jpg


before_potting_top.jpg


before_potting_bottom.jpg


after_potting_disassembled.jpg


side_view.jpg


assembled_bottom.jpg


assembled_top.jpg
 
For a while now, I've wanted to sorta re-make one of the first pickups that I made when I started on this expensive journey.. and the recent talk of sidewinders gave me the kick in the butt I needed. I guess I could say Jeremy made me do it. lol

Anywho, I went and made this (and for anyone curious to hear it: [This invalid link has been removed]):
View attachment 4478898

View attachment 4478897

View attachment 4478896

View attachment 4478893

View attachment 4478899

View attachment 4478894

View attachment 4478895

Look great, sound great. All around amazing!

I was already planning to try making some sidewinders someday, but yours are inspiration for sure. Unfortunately I am still waiting for the SS to arrive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slowburnaz
@slowburnaz it looks like you have copper tape on the coils - is that for shielding? Do you put something under the copper, between it and the wire?

Also, on the pcbs, any reason to not just do a big ground pour that covers the whole pcb as extra shielding?

How are you making that recording? I'm almost totally ignorant when it comes to modern home recording stuff and I am always trying to learn from people who have good results!
 
@slowburnaz it looks like you have copper tape on the coils - is that for shielding? Do you put something under the copper, between it and the wire?

Also, on the pcbs, any reason to not just do a big ground pour that covers the whole pcb as extra shielding?

How are you making that recording? I'm almost totally ignorant when it comes to modern home recording stuff and I am always trying to learn from people who have good results!

Yeah, it's for shielding, and I wrapped the coils with black paper tape first.

As for the PCBs... you know, I hadn't thought of just having most of the bottom surface exposed. That could probably work, too. But, I have traces on both the top and bottom layers, so I'd have to work around those. This seems to work. I've got fluorescent lights and computers in the room where I record samples, and it ends up shielding pretty well.

My recording setup is kinda simple. The bass is a SBMM 4 string. Right now, there's just a 250K volume pot going to the output jack. I'm running the bass into an Axe I/O Solo. I use the included Amplitube software, with the legacy Bass 1 complete rig setting. I then post-process that with T-Racks, using the "White 2A" compressor plugin into the "One Sparkling Master" plugin.
 
Last edited:
Beautiful work Chris, as usual. Solid R & D engineering and craftsmanship. Pushing pickup design forward.

Jeremy happens to be here right now, over across the hall in my Unit 2 shop, machining up a custom neck. I told him about your post and him being your inspiration. He got a good laugh. He thinks of himself as a crazy hobbyist messing around with no real idea what he's doing. I keep telling him that he's actually at the forefront of magnetic pickup development.

You too, Chris. You guys are going way beyond what any of the big pickup manufacturers and most of the boutique winders are doing.
 
Last edited: