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"Major Scale Box" diagram

#21
Ekulati said:
True, not bad, but maybe not the best.
As a bassist, I prefer to think in chord tones and arpeggios, then scale runs, things like that, ALWAYS being conscious of the note I'm playing and how it functions in the chord and the key. Shapes, to me, encourage a more "mindless" approach which I do use when soloing, but not for most bass playing.
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The approach you describe is not that different than what I was saying. Both approaches are playing the same shapes - these shapes are arpeggios and scales. One can thing about each note by name, or one can think about each note by interval. The key is that you're thinking, and not just blindly playing the shapes. The arpeggio "shape" becomes a group of notes to choose from during a chord for example. Or the scale "shape" becomes a roadmap for a fill or run down the fret board. This ability to use movable shapes is a big advantage of the bass. Makes it easy to move around the fret board and transpose.
 
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#22
callofcthulhu said:
When you come down to it, isn't a scale just a fancy name for the box pattern you use on a piano?
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A scale is a collection of notes; they are instrument independent. Same scales available on bass and piano. The diagrams are fingering studies on efficient ways to finger the major scale and triads and 7 chords.

The biggest distinction, and issue for students, is getting “stuck in the box”. Remember that pattern repeats through octaves above and below the diagram. Even if the pattern doesn’t complete because you ran out of neck, whatever portion fits is still valid.

For example in A major, you have the maj7 at the 4th fret, E string, and the 5 at the open E. In C major that open E is the major 3rd; it’s not just the E at the 2nd fret, D string.

So knowing that, I would advise to make it a habit to try out basslines that cover more than one octave of range, and learn a few other closed patterns for the major scale, too. There are 3 that I find common.
 
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#23
As a self taught bass hacker with a bad teacher I can say that starting with knowing some of these boxes helps as long as you continue on to actually learn the notes on the fret board and their relationships . It is also possible to play very well at a high level of musicianship w/o knowing a single note IF you have an inordinate amount of musical talent . I have a friend like that who plays completely by ear - doesn't know any note names and yet - you can put on almost any CD and he will immediately be able to play along well enough to sound like he should have been on the original recording . To those of us less blessed - we need to study and pray we can ever get to that level . To me - his ability to play so well sans any effort is fun to listen to for sure but really just kinda maddening ! .... LOL - Kelly
 
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#24
Damien Erskine is a self described "shape player". He's also a world class virtuoso on the instrument. So I'm not sure that playing shapes is the death of musicality it's somehow made out to be. One thing that really irritates me on this board is the idea of a singular approach to music, usually perpetuated by people with a certain level of formal education. People you've never heard of.
 
#25
Nothing wrong with how the OP is learning. As long as you understand the relationship/ interval between the notes. As far as learning notation , notation is not music theory, it’s a communication system. I’ve played with enough people who could sight read complicated pieces but couldn’t improv to save their lives ( all of them were keyboard players) when my daughter took piano lessons it was a joke. Not a hint of theory just turn the page and play the notes like a human jukebox. I’m not saying that reading music won’t make you a better well rounded musician, but it has nothing to do with theory. Let the flaming begin.
 
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#26
sonic 7 said:
Nothing wrong with how the OP is learning. As long as you understand the relationship/ interval between the notes. As far as learning notation , notation is not music theory, it’s a communication system. I’ve played with enough people who could sight read complicated pieces but couldn’t improv to save their lives ( all of them were keyboard players) when my daughter took piano lessons it was a joke. Not a hint of theory just turn the page and play the notes like a human jukebox. I’m not saying that reading music won’t make you a better well rounded musician, but it has nothing to do with theory. Let the flaming begin.
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Notation is perfect for piano because you can play a C3 in exactly one spot on the keyboard. On a stringed instrument, you'll have multiple positions to play a note and a phrase might be able to be played 20x different ways. So if the tab gives you the preferred fingering, that's valuable information. It's easier to play standard notation on bass because we're usually just playing one note at a time unlike guitar. Acoustic guitar has their chord shape and capo crutch, which is accepted. Nothing wrong with playing shapes on bass, but at least know the notes you're playing. If we hear the classic boogie boogie pattern in a I IV V progression, most of us will play the 1 3 5 6 8 shape that starts on an A or whatever, we're not even thinking of the notes.
 
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#27
MultiScaleMale said:
Notation is perfect for piano because you can play a C3 in exactly one spot on the keyboard. On a stringed instrument, you'll have multiple positions to play a note and a phrase might be able to be played 20x different ways. So if the tab gives you the preferred fingering, that's valuable information. It's easier to play standard notation on bass because we're usually just playing one note at a time unlike guitar. Acoustic guitar has their chord shape and capo crutch, which is accepted. Nothing wrong with playing shapes on bass, but at least know the notes you're playing. If we hear the classic boogie boogie pattern in a I IV V progression, most of us will play the 1 3 5 6 8 shape that starts on an A or whatever, we're not even thinking of the notes.
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Agreed!

How to Play a C.png
 
#29
Horseflesh said:
True fact: when I was in 5th grade I chose the trumpet because it had the fewest buttons. I did not understand how anyone could learn to play those other instruments. These days, I often still feel that way. :D
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Mine was the trombone. No buttons, no keys and only two holes. Didn't work out to be as easy as my 8 year old mind had hoped.
 
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#31
Ekulati said:
As a bassist, I prefer to think in chord tones and arpeggios, then scale runs, things like that, ALWAYS being conscious of the note I'm playing and how it functions in the chord and the key.
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So you're always thinking of this when you play? I have a fairly in-depth knowledge of theory, but I'm almost never thinking about it when I perform. I guess it's one thing to be aware of these aspects in the shed. But I'm like, "yeah, ok" when people imply they are constantly aware of every note in performance.
 
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#32
Horseflesh said:
@Malcolm35 posted a nice guide on how to pick our chord tones in major scales. I like infographics, and I keep a folder of printouts to study, so I used the information to make a new diagram to my own taste. Maybe someone else will find it handy. Thanks again to @Malcolm35 for sharing the info!

This first page I made only contains some of the material from the guide, but later I will do the rest and post an update. A printable PDF is attached to this post.

View attachment 4102284
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Awesome. Well laid out. Very useful.
 
#33
skycruiser said:
This is true. On the other hand you can make a lot of music using these fretboard relationships and not even bother paying attention to any of the notes or keys you are playing. I have created a lot of music while completely disregarding notes and keys. Not claiming to make good music, but it is possible.
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Obviously, it’s much better to have music. That said, it’s is very useful when when you need transpose by ear, liked when your singer shows up with a cold and lost his (or her’s) upper range, or other times when there is little or no time to work it out a part on a note by note basis.
 
#37
Spin Doctor said:
So you're always thinking of this when you play? I have a fairly in-depth knowledge of theory, but I'm almost never thinking about it when I perform. I guess it's one thing to be aware of these aspects in the shed. But I'm like, "yeah, ok" when people imply they are constantly aware of every note in performance.
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No not exactly. Poorly worded, I was in a hurry. I consciously stay aware of the "main" notes, which are usually the chord tones but that could change depending on the context. The "little" in between notes, no. Well unless it's a "less is more" genre like blues or country.

I think my main gripe might just be the term "box" which to me means what guitar players use to make solos and NOT worry about what note they're on. I think bass players should avoid that approach EXCEPT when they're soloing.
 
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