Making an angled neck

[MNbassist]

I wanna make the head of my neck about 13 degrees, but before i start working on it i wanna know what the best way is to make the angle? should i use one piece of wood and waste all the excess, or should i do some cutting and adding at the head? Plz help

 

[bassteban]

Google 'scarf joint', or buy a good book on guitar/bass building. There's so much info revolving around just this question that most experienced builders likely won't reply; a book will give you answers to many other questions as well. Also, some builders websites will show pics of basses being built.

 

[wilser]

are you kidding? why google when you can talkbass?

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186192

the SEARCH function is there for a reason.

 

[tribal3140]

yea theres an excellent pictorial on how to do a "13 degree scarf joint!

read it and will be attampting one myself soon!

 

[bassteban]

...that's what I meant to say, really- google talkbass.

 

[eleonn]

are you kidding? why google when you can talkbass?

Wilser I was reading your tutorial yesterday carefully (BTW I like your joint jig ) and I have some doubts not about the procedure itself but about short grain and glued pieces.

Could two glued pieces be stronger than a one single piece? I always thought that glued pieces were weaker than one single piece of whatever.

2. No short grain, which makes for a stronger headstock. If you cut the angled headstock from one piece, you'll get 'short grain'. that means the grain of the wood will run almost perpendicular to the headstock face, which makes for a much weaker headstock. Of course, this could be minimized by glueing a face plate over the headstock (or even one over and one under).

I guess that how perpendicular the short grain is will depend of the degrees on the scarf joint. For a 13° is actually more parallel that perpendicular. Now, to have a short grain on a headstock will make it weaker than two glued pieces?

I have to say that I'm not affirming (not sure about the word "affirming" so I use an online translator ...too lazy to get my dictionary ) anything. I'm just asking about it so I can increment my reduced knowledge in this subject.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

Wilser I was reading your tutorial yesterday carefully (BTW I like your joint jig ) and I have some doubts not about the procedure itself but about short grain and glued pieces.

Could two glued pieces be stronger than a one single piece? I always thought that glued pieces were weaker than one single piece of whatever.



I guess that how perpendicular the short grain is will depend of the degrees on the scarf joint. For a 13° is actually more parallel that perpendicular. Now, to have a short grain on a headstock will make it weaker than two glued pieces?

I have to say that I'm not affirming (not sure about the word "affirming" so I use an online translator ...too lazy to get my dictionary ) anything. I'm just asking about it so I can increment my reduced knowledge in this subject.

A properly executed join should be stronger than a single piece since the glue joint is generally stronger than the surrounding wood when using a glue such as aliphatic (yellow) or polyurethane glue.

An improperly executed joint could be very weak and indeed weaker than a single piece of wood.

 

[teej]

There's this lady that builds acoustics. I can't recall her name, but she's got a site, and on that site is a nice how-to on making a scarf joint with a jig and table saw, but I don't see why a band saw (or perhaps a quality jig saw) couldn't work. Some have even cut it by hand.

 

[mahrous]

the lady lives in London, Ontario in Canada.
she is the one that makes Pat Methany's guitars right?


her name is Linda Manzer
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smoe fascinating stuff there!

 

[Hambone]

A properly executed join should be stronger than a single piece since the glue joint is generally stronger than the surrounding wood when using a glue such as aliphatic (yellow) or polyurethane glue.

I'm not sure this is entirely true in this case only because one of the mated surfaces is nearly all endgrain. So it's a hard pourous surface and a softer solid surface being glued together and that can't be the best possible combination. I think that's why you see most scarf joints being oriented in such a way that the fretboard contacts and covers a large area of the scab piece - additional strength.

But Geoff has built more than me.

 

[teej]

I think that's why you see most scarf joints being oriented in such a way that the fretboard contacts and covers a large area of the scab piece - additional strength.

That's the only way I've ever seen one made.

the lady lives in London, Ontario in Canada.
she is the one that makes Pat Methany's guitars right?

No, the lady I was thinking of is of Asian descent. Kathy Matsu****a -- that's it.

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EDIT: Curse you, TB language filter! I think it should only apply to whole words.

 

[Hambone]

That's the only way I've ever seen one made.

See what I mean?

 

[Suburban]

T No, the lady I was thinking of is of Asian descent. Kathy Matsu****a -- that's it.

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EDIT: Curse you, TB language filter! I think it should only apply to whole words.

LMAO !!!

 

[eleonn]

Could any of you post a pic of a scarf joint already finish to see how it looks the glued section on a non solid colored bass? I want to see how obvious it is. I haven't see or at least I don't remember any bass (with non solid colored finish) with a scarf joint around here. Most of those basses were Fenders, ESPs, Ibanezs and one or two custom basses (...there are no Sadowkys, Laklands, Foderas or alike here!!!).

Edit. I guess that maybe mass production brands don't use scarf joints on their intruments.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

But Geoff has built more than me.

Huh? I don't think that's true.

 

[pilotjones]

I guess that maybe mass production brands don't use scarf joints on their intruments.

They certainly do! You just need to look beyond the Fender-type headstocks (flat, usually with string trees) and look at the ones with tiltback-headstocks. I would say the majority of them are scarfed.

 

[wilser]

Could any of you post a pic of a scarf joint already finish to see how it looks the glued section on a non solid colored bass? I want to see how obvious it is. I haven't see or at least I don't remember any bass (with non solid colored finish) with a scarf joint around here. Most of those basses were Fenders, ESPs, Ibanezs and one or two custom basses (...there are no Sadowkys, Laklands, Foderas or alike here!!!).

Edit. I guess that maybe mass production brands don't use scarf joints on their intruments.

You just just REFUSE to use the search function, don't you?

There are 2 ways to do a scarf ...under the neck and over the neck. This one is over the neck.
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From thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245591

Though, this is less noticeable, it's the same configuration as the prior photo:
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There are many ibanez, esp, etc basses with scarf jointed headstocks which are very obvious ...especially when they break right at the joint. I had this happen to me on an old BC Rich from my metal days.

 

[erikbojerik]

That's the only way I've ever seen one made.

Actually, I think there's a better way (I have Anthony Setchell to thank for this one).

Scarf under the neck, but instead make the cut within the area of the headstock rather than under the nut or under #1. Flip the short piece and glue it underneath, glue ears to the sides, then add a top laminate and backstrap and you have yourself an invisible scarf.

The other way is perfectly fine, I've just never liked the asthetics of the joint that is visible on the back of the neck.

 

[eleonn]

You just just REFUSE to use the search function, don't you?

Actually I did (that's how I found your scarf joint tutorial thread) but didn't find any good pic as these

Tried with google too but the only close pic I found was this

which I don't think to be a good example of a well done scarf joint, don't you think?

Well ...thanks again Wilser!!!!!

 

[wilser]

Actually, I think there's a better way (I have Anthony Setchell to thank for this one).

Scarf under the neck, but instead make the cut within the area of the headstock rather than under the nut or under #1. Flip the short piece and glue it underneath, glue ears to the sides, then add a top laminate and backstrap and you have yourself an invisible scarf.

The other way is perfectly fine, I've just never liked the asthetics of the joint that is visible on the back of the neck.

well, you say that's a better way, but they're really both about the same, and I've heard arguments con and pro both. I've used both on my instruments and will use one or the other based on the blank size and the effect I want to achieve. Though you don't like how the 'over the neck' looks, I actually prefer that look, thanks to Fred (Bee Basses). Also, if you're going to use a single wood as a neck, like the wenge, it'll be more attractive to use over the neck.

Under the neck is very useful if your neck blank is on the short side, because you can use the scarf cut on the neck blank as part of the headstock, so you can use a smaller piece for the head. But, as you pointed out, you must laminate some kind of veneer to cover it up, which is fine if you were gonna use a body matching veneer anyway.

Again, both are fine, it's just a matter of preference.