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Making The Best 4 Hour Bar Gig

#221
bluewine said:
+1 I agree, Many will not want to hear this, however, every musician I know that makes this about themselves, will only play music they personally like and talk in terms of artistic integrity are bandless and are basically bedroom noodlers.

blue
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There's nothing wrong with that. They'd rather do what they want to do and please themselves than please a bunch of drunks in a bar.

They're more into personal artistry and self-satisfaction. They aren't doing it for the money (because there isn't any), they're doing it for fun, maybe passion.

The bar band guys are more like entertainers, laymen, workers, they provide a service which is live music. They play what people want to hear and provide a good time for others (if they want to stay busy).

They are two completely different things.
 
#222
GlennW said:
There's nothing wrong with that. They'd rather do what they want to do and please themselves than please a bunch of drunks in a bar.

They're more into personal artistry and self-satisfaction. They aren't doing it for the money (because there isn't any), they're doing it for fun, maybe passion.

The bar band guys are more like entertainers, laymen, workers, they provide a service which is live music. They play what people want to hear and provide a good time for others (if they want to stay busy).

They are two completely different things.
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I have to agree with you, Glenn. There is a difference between those two types of players.

It's not wrong to be either type of player, but know what you are and accept it. I am of the second type; I like doing popular music for a fee, catering to what the crowd wants and helping to provide a fun experience for them. I am probably the farthest thing there is from an "artist", I am more of an "entertainer". I'm okay with that, it's who I am and it's what I do.

When I get up on stage, I often think of an interview with Dave Navarro that I read some time ago. In it, he stated that he went through the whole "misunderstood artist" stage and it didn't suit him. He keeps a small note taped to his pedal board that says "You get to do this". It hit home with me. Because I "get to do this", and I feel great about being able to provide a good show for people who want to have a good time and bringing some fun into their lives.

At my last gig on Saturday, we sincerely thanked the crowd for coming out, spending their time and hard earned money to hang with us for a few hours, and giving us the privilege of playing for them. Sometimes I think when you lose sight of that, you lose a lot.
 
#223
Steve said:
5+ a week for more years than I care to remember.

It's a job. It's a job you love but, it's still a job.

Treat it like a job.

Be good at your job.

Sell a product that people want to buy.

Your job is to make the people happy.

It is not the job of the people to make you happy.

If you have to choose between trying to entertain and trying to impress, choose entertain every time no matter how much it hurts.

If you give the audience what they want, they will give you what you want.

If you try to sell them @#$ that they are not interested in, be prepared for a long night.


See an underlying theme to all that?

It ain't about you...or me.... or what we may or may not want.
Make it about them and it will be as good as it can be.

The instant you even start to try to make it about yourself and what you want, the heartache and downward spiral starts.

Of the list of important things on a 4 set bar gig. artistic vision and artistic integrity are at the absolute bottom of the list, written on the back, in small letters.

THAT is pretty much how you survive it long term without losing your mind.
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I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Aligning your artistic vision with finding what an audience wants is difficult, but makes it worthwhile.

Artistic integrity is on my list. It may not be bolded at the top, but it's right up there. I have been on a mission to honor those great songs that made rock and roll as great as it has been over the years, and remind people how great they really are.

Thousands of bands have sucked the life out of some of those songs, by either playing them lackluster, or simply not being qualified to play them in the first place, and thousands of bands have chosen the least interesting and challenging of the hits.

How much can I make a year doing bar gigs in the Fort Wayne market? More than I make at a day job? Do I get benefits, or a retirement plan?

We are in the middle of the pack here. The bands that are doing better than us had a ten or twenty year head start on making the important connections, and of the bands that don't give a crap, and just use some gimmick, there are only a handful doing well.

My belief is, you put on the very best show you can, and part of that is believing in the show you are putting on.
 
#225
GlennW said:
There's nothing wrong with that. They'd rather do what they want to do and please themselves than please a bunch of drunks in a bar.
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I have said this before, I play bars every single weekend, where are all these drunks I keep hearing about? It's extremely rare for me to even see a drunk no less encountered by one.

I usually talk to a few people, sign a few cds and thank people for their support of live music and for coming out. None of these people are drunk. Friday night it was this really nice guy that bought his wife and family out to see us in a small lake bar. He purchased several cds, and the guy put a 50 in the tip jar. Glen, that's class not drunkenness .

Is it because I play to an older crowd that for the most part has gotten getting drunk out of their lives?

For the TB record I take issue with this whole notion that we play to drunks. Because I don't.

I question how the artist sitting in his bedroom is a little better than me because I work hard 4 hour shows in bars and clubs?

Guy's I'm starting to think this line about playing to drunks is some sort of excuse for bandless guys with no work.

blue
 
#226
GlennW said:
They're more into personal artistry and self-satisfaction.
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Hi Glen,

I'm into it too.

I like getting personal with the people that come out to see us and when I am playing bass it's always me trying to be artistic with the overall performance.

Self -satisfaction is when I'm paid at the end of an evening, it validates that I know how to do something that people are willing to pay for. I think that's great.

I'm actually passionate about the whole process.

Blue
 
#227
If you want to talk 'artistry' and 'musiciansmanship' - I'd put the chops of the average 4 hour gigging bassist up against the 'artist' recording in their basement any day of the week.

Mellowinman's post is a good one - you owe the song, and the original performer, that respect and care be given to the performance. Does that mean you have to do it note for note? Not in my book - but it means that I better play the hell out of it, and enjoy it. And I do :-)
 
#228
richntiff said:
If you want to talk 'artistry' and 'musiciansmanship' - I'd put the chops of the average 4 hour gigging bassist up against the 'artist' recording in their basement any day of the week.
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The players in both groups span all levels of musicianship.

I've seen bar band guys that play just about anything, and it actually sounds like the song. I've also seen bar band guys who blow.

I've seen play at home guys who are completely clueless and have no sense of time, and seen some that play great. The clueless guys are in some fantasy land thinking they're being original and creating, and often have much more equipment than talent. The guys who're good and choose to play at home do so because they'd rather enjoy playing the music they want to play as opposed to dealing with all the bs associated with being in a band.

Just because someone is in a working band doesn't mean he's any better of a player than the play at home guy.

Otoh, just because someone "writes and records" at home doesn't mean he's worth a damn either.
 
#229
Here's my list of what makes for a good 4 hour bar gig. For me there's just as much that will ruin a gig as make it.
1. Playing with people you actually like to be around, people you consider friends that respect you and you respect them.
2. Not playing with people who are an embarrassment, i.e. drunk, unprofessional, sloppy.
3. Playing venues that have the correct clientelle for what your band does. I love playing for a crowd that digs the songs we play. I hate trying to do classic rock for a bar full of 21 -25 year olds that would rather we stop so they can put hip hop or something I don't even have a name for on the jukebox.
4. Not playing for stupid rude drunks. Yes, they do exist. They seem to usually congregate. There are bars that I would just as soon never step foot in again.
5. Not playing for the high pressure bar owner/manager that is on your case about how many people you are bringing to the gig. Some bar owners think that because they hire a band their crappy little overpriced smelly piece of crap bar with homely waitresses should be packed. It doesn't work that way. I have played places that I won't invite anyone cuz the bar sucks. I'll wait to invite friends to the good gigs.
 
#232
bluewine said:
I have said this before, I play bars every single weekend, where are all these drunks I keep hearing about? It's extremely rare for me to even see a drunk no less encountered by one.
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It's kind of like saying that you've never seen an overweight person when you're working at a buffet.

People drink alcohol at bars, and as a result some get drunk. It doesn't mean that they are rude, slobbering, staggering folks who are out to start fights and hump everything they see. But, people do go to bars to have a few and catch a buzz. And the bar bands that get paid more tend to have larger crowds of people that drink more. If I played a bar gig where no-one or very few people drank, I wouldn't expect to be booked there again.
 
#234
jive1 said:
It's kind of like saying that you've never seen an overweight person when you're working at a buffet.

People drink alcohol at bars, and as a result some get drunk. It doesn't mean that they are rude, slobbering, staggering folks who are out to start fights and hump everything they see. But, people do go to bars to have a few and catch a buzz. And the bar bands that get paid more tend to have larger crowds of people that drink more. If I played a bar gig where no-one or very few people drank, I wouldn't expect to be booked there again.
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The context the original comment referenced was the slobbering, staggering folks who are out to start fights and hump everything they see. Those are the people I never see. As a matter of fact I talk to people that are drinking but not what I would call drunks.

So, I still say, where are all these drunks. I'm not seeing them where I play.

Blue
 
#237
jive1 said:
Me too. It means that people have stuck around, and bought drinks. It means that the bar made money, which increases my band's chance of getting rebooked at a higher rate.
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I would say that's a real "reach" for being re-booked.

A band can have a club packed with record booze sales and still not get asked back. And that could be for many reasons.

Blue
 
#239
I'm 56 and I've never done the typical bar band cover song deal. In my 20s, to be honest I probably wasn't good enough to cut it. By the time my 30s and 40s rolled around, my chops were a lot better but I had a career and a good day job, and it just didn't appeal to me to do that.

What I did do was play in a bluegrass band for 10-15 yrs, either as a guitarist or bassist and had a pretty good time doing it. I'd still be doing it if the right opportunity presented itself. We played the occasional bar, but it was either our home hangout (paid decent) or a low key place in Birmingham or Atlanta that catered to the acoustic crowd. Our bread and butter was festivals and private parties. Festivals can be a drag too. Try playing 3 45 min sets in some city park on the back of some trailer in the blistering summer heat to fat women in flip flops and rug rats. Then tear down the PA. But we played some great ones too. Almost all of the bigger bluegrass festivals in the Southeast. The big festivals always provided sound. Show up, tune, look good, and play your best and you are always appreciated. Private parties were the best. We made $50-$100 man, got free food and beer, and a lot of the time didnt even have to set up a PA, just find a corner and jam, or just bring a little system at most.

Upon retirement, I've hooked up with a young 20 something singer songwriter. I'm playing upright, and we now have a full band that includes elec guitar and drums. Everyone is 20-30 yrs old cept me, I'm the old man. Its 80% original music, and 20% covers that we select. We've just completed a demo and are beginning to shop it around. Places within a 1-4 hr drive of North Alabama catering to original Americana-ish music are few and far between but there are a few. Plus there's the festival thing. We have no illusions of this being profitable. We're doing it because we love it.

If we can make the gas money we will go. And yes, there will be some obnoxious people and sloppy drunks to deal with, but hopefully not too many.
 

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