And there's a big difference between a sunny day and a rainy day. Your point?
In the world of health care, it's a very significant and problematic difference.
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Mandatory bicycle helmets?
- Thread starter Fassa Albrecht
- Start date
In the world of health care, it's a very significant and problematic difference.
The original statement billed vs. paid leads people to assume that many hospital bills "billed" go unpaid by the patient and end up paid by the taxpayer through taxes. I question that assumption.
I believe that most people pay their medical bills (some lose their homes, cars and personal property in the process). These aren't paid by other taxpayers. Some cases end in bankruptcy (Chapter 11 or Chapter 7). None of these medical bills are paid via other taxpayers.
In short Greg C's statement seemed very misleading and lacked any explanation of how it applied to the topic at hand.
I thought my point was fairly clear, but perhaps I should have spelled it out. You can't simply say people are billed and conclude that additional medical costs resulting from people not wearing helmets aren't borne by others.
Yes, I'm sure most people pay their bills and/or are insured, but as spade indicates, that still leaves a lot of costs that aren't covered. I don't have the stats, but I'm willing to bet those costs go into the hundreds of millions (maybe billions) annually. Some are paid by taxpayers through Medicaid, others are eaten by health-care providers and thus paid by everyone else who uses them.
Weighing the benefits of lower costs vs. the remarkably mild infringement of helmet laws on our freedoms, I'm not seeing your case at all.
Wow. This is just as brilliant as your previous comment about racing without helmets.
Interestingly enough, a helmet law would have no effect in my neighborhood, where education and social conformity have already done the job. Helmet use is virtually 100%, including toddlers on trikes and kids with piercings and tats. There is a vibrant market in helmets tailored specifically to the fashion needs of teenagers, such as goth and punk.
When I play in downtown clubs, and look out into the audience, I see people with helmets and flashing red lights that they forgot to turn off.
Because it seems relatively easy to achieve 100% helmet use, I don't see the point of a helmet law, but I also don't see the point of blowing such a law out of proportion. If you are too precious to put on a helmet, then you can always walk or take the bus.
As for Fassa's argument about bike paths... Madison is one of the most bike-friendly cities in the country. We have lots of bike paths. But it's impossible to completely rearrange the urban / suburban landscape for the sake of bikes. Most of us who use bikes for transportation, including me, will still have to ride on regular roads.
When I play in downtown clubs, and look out into the audience, I see people with helmets and flashing red lights that they forgot to turn off.
Because it seems relatively easy to achieve 100% helmet use, I don't see the point of a helmet law, but I also don't see the point of blowing such a law out of proportion. If you are too precious to put on a helmet, then you can always walk or take the bus.
As for Fassa's argument about bike paths... Madison is one of the most bike-friendly cities in the country. We have lots of bike paths. But it's impossible to completely rearrange the urban / suburban landscape for the sake of bikes. Most of us who use bikes for transportation, including me, will still have to ride on regular roads.
Greg,
Thats because I never made the case against wearing a helmet while cycling.
Read my posts. You will find that my only complaint is with how government agencies choose to get people to wear helmets. I'm not a fan of the big stick approach. Education and incentives are more my speed regarding establishing and enforcing new laws and regulations. (see FDeck's post)
Wow. This is just as brilliant as your previous comment about racing without helmets.
Fassa needeth attention. No more, no less. I'm still guessing there's no bike.
I think it looks something like this:
And in about 2 months we'll have a new thread to laugh over:
I feel like I need to spell it out for a few people.
I smacked a bicyclist with my car once. She went to make a left hand turn without signaling or even looking to see if it was clear.
I did absolutely everything in my power to prevent the accident. I swerved all the way into the oncoming lane and slammed on my brakes, but I was still going probably 30 mph when she hit me.
My windows were open, because it was July and I drive a black car with no air conditioning.
She whacked her HEAD on the frame of my car. She wasn't wearing a helmet. There was enough force in this impact to lift her up (by her HEAD) and flip the rest of her body on top of my car.
She rolled over the top of my car, bounced off the trunk and came to rest on the pavement.
When she got up (or at least tried to get up) she could hardly walk, she could hardly talk, and she said she was seeing stuff that wasn't there. She got ****ed up.
I never did hear what happened to her. I figured they would have told me if she died, so I have to assume she's still alive, but I didn't have the heart to sue her for the damages to my vehicle.
So Fassa (and I'm assuming that you ACTUALLY have a bike and ACTUALLY ride it around, and I know, that's a lot to assume), remember this.
You only have to **** up once. That's it, and your whole life could be over, and if it's not, you might wish it was. That helmet you're too cool to wear could give you another chance. If you don't think you deserve that second chance, fine. Don't wear the helmet.
And a question for you:
Would you please explain to me how it would COST money to get people to wear helmets? All it costs is the piece of paper the citation is printed on, and I'm pretty sure they factor that into the fine.
Bike paths, on the other hand, are very expensive.
I smacked a bicyclist with my car once. She went to make a left hand turn without signaling or even looking to see if it was clear.
I did absolutely everything in my power to prevent the accident. I swerved all the way into the oncoming lane and slammed on my brakes, but I was still going probably 30 mph when she hit me.
My windows were open, because it was July and I drive a black car with no air conditioning.
She whacked her HEAD on the frame of my car. She wasn't wearing a helmet. There was enough force in this impact to lift her up (by her HEAD) and flip the rest of her body on top of my car.
She rolled over the top of my car, bounced off the trunk and came to rest on the pavement.
When she got up (or at least tried to get up) she could hardly walk, she could hardly talk, and she said she was seeing stuff that wasn't there. She got ****ed up.
I never did hear what happened to her. I figured they would have told me if she died, so I have to assume she's still alive, but I didn't have the heart to sue her for the damages to my vehicle.
So Fassa (and I'm assuming that you ACTUALLY have a bike and ACTUALLY ride it around, and I know, that's a lot to assume), remember this.
You only have to **** up once. That's it, and your whole life could be over, and if it's not, you might wish it was. That helmet you're too cool to wear could give you another chance. If you don't think you deserve that second chance, fine. Don't wear the helmet.
And a question for you:
Would you please explain to me how it would COST money to get people to wear helmets? All it costs is the piece of paper the citation is printed on, and I'm pretty sure they factor that into the fine.
Bike paths, on the other hand, are very expensive.
Last year, a cyclist in Madison encountered some difficulty and ended up on the pavement. A delivery truck ran over his head. Thanks to his helmet, he walked away from it.
Wow, never heard about that one, that's incredible.
I try to keep my distance from cyclists since the incident I mentioned above, but in Madison that can be difficult. They're everywhere.
You commuters are nuts.
Hah! That's hilarious. I've got to make it to Mad-town more often.
I read your posts, HI. This is what I have been taking issue with:Greg,
Thats because I never made the case against wearing a helmet while cycling.
Read my posts. You will find that my only complaint is with how government agencies choose to get people to wear helmets. I'm not a fan of the big stick approach. Education and incentives are more my speed regarding establishing and enforcing new laws and regulations. (see FDeck's post)
I support a helmet law and enforcement of it--that is what I was referring to when I spoke of "infringement of our freedoms". (Was that not clear, either?) You make it sound like there are National Guardsmen tear-gassing or tazing helmet-less cyclists.
Hah! That's hilarious. I've got to make it to Mad-town more often.
I read your posts, HI. This is what I have been taking issue with:
I support a helmet law and enforcement of it--that is what I was referring to when I spoke of "infringement of our freedoms". (Was that not clear, either?) You make it sound like there are National Guardsmen tear-gassing or tazing helmet-less cyclists.
You're just too much Greg! Hilarious even. Take all my posts as written and it's clear that I support the use helmets for cycling. Not once did I bring in the National Guard or Reserves
Education and positive reinforcement to obtain compliance is what I recommended and support ahead of penalties and fines (plain and simple, nothing more and nothing less). I guess I shouldn't take your comments seroiusly anymore, since you merely want to play games. Peace!
Whoa. I didn't notice your location before.
True.
It's pretty crazy around the university, downtown, or the older neighborhoods where streets are narrow. Fortunately, my commute is in a much more boring part of town. And I have neither the bike nor the stamina to do what some guys do.
I'm not playing games. But you referred to this...You're just too much Greg! Hilarious even. Take all my posts as written and it's clear that I support the use helmets for cycling. Not once did I bring in the National Guard or Reserves
I guess I shouldn't take your comments seroiusly anymore, since you merely want to play games. Peace!
earlier as...
You got all dramatic, so I gave you a hard time.
I'm not playing games. But you referred to this...
earlier as...
You got all dramatic, so I gave you a hard time.
It's just that you somehow forgot to include that I supported using helmets and that I prefered a method of enforcement/complience other than fines and penalties to achieve the primary goal of getting cyclists to wear helmets and reduce risk of severe head injuries. If you like the fines and penalties approach thats OK with me, I think there are other ways to achieve the same objective in certain cases.
You also get rather selective on what you include in your quotes at times. Tends to give a false impression of what the person you quoted meant.
Gentlemen, I believe you guys have reached the point where you raise the glasses and say "cheers". 
Gentlemen, I believe you guys have reached the point where you raise the glasses and say "cheers".
I'll get the Guinness!
