Marginal interest in upright bass

[fdeck]

Tuning in 5ths is reasonably manageable on cello. Tuning the instrument in fourths would probably be a handicap. Playing certain cello pieces on an instrument tuned in 4ths results in some incredibly messy shifts that greatly limit speed in which the pieces can be played...at least that's my experience. But I can not see the sense in tuning a string bass or even an electric bass in 5ths. Seems that would result in even more shifting due to the extended scale. I know some people do it, but it's not for me.

Right. To clarify I'm sticking with 4ths on bass. Since I also play upright, I think it would actually be dangerous for me to try a radically different fingering system on bass. Another thing is that I'm treating the cello more like a melodic instrument, not as a bass. Think tenor sax.

 

[IamGroot]

Right. To clarify I'm sticking with 4ths on bass. Since I also play upright, I think it would actually be dangerous for me to try a radically different fingering system on bass. Another thing is that I'm treating the cello more like a melodic instrument, not as a bass. Think tenor sax.

I tried play 1234 on upright and wound up with severe tendonitis that sidelined my playing for a half year. Yes, dumb move.

There are pivot methods that allow you to add range in 4ths or 5ths tuning, but would strongly getting an instructor to avoid injury.

 

[Wasnex]

Right. To clarify I'm sticking with 4ths on bass. Since I also play upright, I think it would actually be dangerous for me to try a radically different fingering system on bass. Another thing is that I'm treating the cello more like a melodic instrument, not as a bass. Think tenor sax.

That's how I read it...I try to treat bass as a melodic instrument as well. My primary axe is a Yamaha TRB6P. I tried to get back into an NS Design 6-string EUB a few months back, but the seller refunded my money instead of shipping. As a result, my upright skills continue to atrophy.

 

[Wasnex]

I tried play 1234 on upright and wound up with severe tendonitis that sidelined my playing for a half year. Yes, dumb move.

There are pivot methods that allow you to add range in 4ths or 5ths tuning, but would strongly getting an instructor to avoid injury.

I believe Stanley Clarke uses 1234 on string bass, but the spread of his fingers is huge.

When I play an extra long scale electric, like my Daion PowerMark X-B, I tend to use 124 in the low positions to avoid too much stress to my hand. I can use 1234 on my Yamaha TRB6P most of the time, but it can be very difficult and taxing with certain repetitive technical patterns. Not even close when I play a full size string bass. I explored the idea for a few minutes and recognized the futility.

I know pivots and microshifts work for many players, but my playing has evolved away from these techniques. I generally like to keep the shape of my fingering hand more stable, and find maintaining the "claw" improves accuracy and intonation, and feels less likely to cause a repetitive stress injury.

 

[LBS-bass]

Watched a video of myself playing over the weekend and realized that I use my third finger a lot more than I thought I do, so I'm adding this hurdle to my list of considerations.

 

[IamGroot]

Watched a video of myself playing over the weekend and realized that I use my third finger a lot more than I thought I do, so I'm adding this hurdle to my list of considerations.

If your instructor hasn't already recommended this, buy a full length mirror so you can see yourself play. Esp. useful when you start bowing.

 

[bass12]

As someone who started playing upright two years ago (after having played electric for almost thirty years) here are some of my thoughts and experiences:

- Most people who want upright on a gig want it as much for the image as anything else. For that reason an EUB or Rob Allen-type EBG won't cut it - no matter how "upright" you can make one of those two options sound.

- I was gigging on upright three-and-a-half months after starting. I wasn't playing particularly well but I was getting by well enough for the context.

- I began taking weekly lessons right from the start and I would recommend that anyone starting on DB - no matter how much experience that person might have on electric - do the same. A good teacher will help to keep you from developing bad habits (and will help keep you on track in general).

- DB is a physical instrument but for me it hasn't so much been about hand strength as it has been about the way your entire body has to be properly aligned when playing. Your arms, shoulders, hips, fingers, neck, etc. might all go through "growing pains" as you settle into an ideal playing position (and settling into that position could take months or even years). I'd suspect this is especially likely if you are an older player (I was 41 when I started on DB) and I've gone through various pains while becoming accustomed to the instrument.

- Transporting a DB is a pain but you will figure out little ways to make the process more efficient and at least a little bit less arduous.

- A well set-up DB is a lot easier to play than a not-well-set-up DB. When you're unfamiliar with how a bass could or should play it can be difficult to recognize a less-than-optimal set-up. It's important for you to try out as many basses as you can before committing to a purchase but I would also suggest you bring your friend along. He will have a better idea of how the bass should feel and he'll have a better notion of some of the questions that might be worth asking the vendor.

- DBs require maintenance in a way that bass guitars don't. This can be expensive. Part of my reasoning when getting into DB was that it would increase my gigging opportunities. It has (marginally) but at this rate it will take many years for me to make back the money I have put into the instrument.

- A lot of what you already know will be translatable to DB.

- DBs are a hassle in many ways but if you click with the instrument then it will be worth the trouble. There can be a great deal of satisfaction to be had in coaxing sound from the upright and from seeing what the instrument can, in turn, coax from you. I was never very curious about DB. It was only when a friend insisted that I borrow his that I decided to give it a try. I'm glad I did, as it's been a great learning experience and a lot of fun.

 

[bass12]

I believe Stanley Clarke uses 1234 on string bass, but the spread of his fingers is huge.

Stanley Clarke also uses very light gauge strings (on both upright and electric).

 

[bass12]

Watched a video of myself playing over the weekend and realized that I use my third finger a lot more than I thought I do, so I'm adding this hurdle to my list of considerations.

I wouldn't consider that a hurdle. Studying Simandl (which you are likely to do if a teacher is involved) will sort that out for you.

 

[Wasnex]

Watched a video of myself playing over the weekend and realized that I use my third finger a lot more than I thought I do, so I'm adding this hurdle to my list of considerations.

I doubt it will be that big of a problem after a short transition. The third finger simply won't reach far enough so you will learn that it's only function is to help the pinkie...unless your technique eventually advances to learning thumb position; then the pinkie gets the axe.

 

[delta7fred]

It's a slippery slope and there must be something about hitting 60, that was when I got the bug. I met up with a fellow TBer when he was over here in the UK touring and played his DB for all of 30 seconds.

First I bought a used Stagg EUB, then realised that it needed a lot spending on it to make it playable (finger board planning) so put that money towards a much better EUB (FarWest Redhead). I have played that at a few gigs and open mic nights and thought that was the upright itch well and truly scratched.

Then earlier this year my local music shop were selling a used CCB BSO (Cheap Chinese Bass, Bass Shaped Object as they are affectionately known on the dark side) that was stupid cheap and I couldn't resist it. Now I am thinking about a better DB but am holding off until I see if my acoustic side project gains any traction. We ceased all activity in the summer when our guitarist started treatment for myeloma (bone marrow plasma cell cancer).

 

[Wasnex]

It's a slippery slope and there must be something about hitting 60, that was when I got the bug. I met up with a fellow TBer when he was over here in the UK touring and played his DB for all of 30 seconds.

First I bought a used Stagg EUB, then realised that it needed a lot spending on it to make it playable (finger board planning) so put that money towards a much better EUB (FarWest Redhead). I have played that at a few gigs and open mic nights and thought that was the upright itch well and truly scratched.

Then earlier this year my local music shop were selling a used CCB BSO (Cheap Chinese Bass, Bass Shaped Object as they are affectionately known on the dark side) that was stupid cheap and I couldn't resist it. Now I am thinking about a better DB but am holding off until I see if my acoustic side project gains any traction. We ceased all activity in the summer when our guitarist started treatment for myeloma (bone marrow plasma cell cancer).

The contour (from end to end) of the finger board really makes a huge difference in the sound the instrument makes and how easily it can be setup to play, especially if you want a growly sound.

This is a good subject to read up on if you can find articles, unfortunately they are not easy to find...anyone have references?

 

[delta7fred]

The contour (from end to end) of the finger board really makes a huge difference in the sound the instrument makes and how easily it can be setup to play, especially if you want a growly sound.

This is a good subject to read up on if you can find articles, unfortunately they are not easy to find...anyone have references?

I looked and couldn't find any information.

I thought about having a go at planing it myself but it would be something that I wouldn't want to rush so would have been without the bass while I was doing it, and much longer if I messed it up. After chatting to a (UK based) EUB builder for an hour was satisfied that he knew his stuff and bought one of his - no regrets.

He told me that the most of the important stuff happens in the first 7 frets of the fingerboard (if it had frets). I can get away with saying that on the BG side, I would get hung drawn and quartered on the DB side!

 

[MD]

I'm going to stick with fifths tuning. When I was a teenager, I played both cello and electric bass, and was able to go back and forth, as if I had two brains. The cello fingering came back quite quickly, reading is still a bit of a work in progress. I'm working my way through the bass clef real book, focusing on the tunes that I don't aleady know.

Cool.
I'm on the fence. My cello needs to be set up (bridge/post down from shipping), and I have to decide to go either 5ths for classical play, or go 4ths for jazz and improvisation. Heads wouldn't be a problem, but I've been playing 4ths for so long, I don't think I have the life expectancy to shift soloing to 5th tuning.

 

[IamGroot]

Cool.
I'm on the fence. My cello needs to be set up (bridge/post down from shipping), and I have to decide to go either 5ths for classical play, or go 4ths for jazz and improvisation. Heads wouldn't be a problem, but I've been playing 4ths for so long, I don't think I have the life expectancy to shift soloing to 5th tuning.

Do you play 1234 on cello? I am guessing yes, but....

 

[Wasnex]

Cool.
I'm on the fence. My cello needs to be set up (bridge/post down from shipping), and I have to decide to go either 5ths for classical play, or go 4ths for jazz and improvisation. Heads wouldn't be a problem, but I've been playing 4ths for so long, I don't think I have the life expectancy to shift soloing to 5th tuning.

You would probably be surprised how fast your ears and hands adapt...but naming the notes on the finger board .

 

[fdeck]

Cool.
I'm on the fence. My cello needs to be set up (bridge/post down from shipping), and I have to decide to go either 5ths for classical play, or go 4ths for jazz and improvisation. Heads wouldn't be a problem, but I've been playing 4ths for so long, I don't think I have the life expectancy to shift soloing to 5th tuning.

One thing I actually like is that most of my bass "licks" don't work, so I have to break out of my old habits, and my solos sound a lot different. Also, double stops become a lot more interesting and aggressive -- you can reach a 7th. I don't try to play a huge number of notes, and the bow helps with that because you can do more with tone and bowing, likewise on upright bass.

I have no idea if I'll ever play it in public, but it's a great living room / basement band instrument. I've taken it to my basement band, and it amplifies pretty well with an Ehrlund upright bass pickup.

When I do play bass lines, they're a lot more effective with the bow than pizz. Jazz pizz bass is something that really can't be reproduced except maybe on tuba.

 

[Wasnex]

I looked and couldn't find any information.

I thought about having a go at planing it myself but it would be something that I wouldn't want to rush so would have been without the bass while I was doing it, and much longer if I messed it up. After chatting to a (UK based) EUB builder for an hour was satisfied that he knew his stuff and bought one of his - no regrets.

He told me that the most of the important stuff happens in the first 7 frets of the fingerboard (if it had frets). I can get away with saying that on the BG side, I would get hung drawn and quartered on the DB side!

I have read a few articles but it has been a long time and I can't find anything that I consider relevant today. I vaguely remember one article that went into detail on how the shape of the fingerboard has an impact on how much growl is produced in the tone. So the optimum shape varies depending upon the sound you want. Of course this would not relate to a fretted instrument.

 

[Wasnex]

One thing I actually like is that most of my bass "licks" don't work, so I have to break out of my old habits, and my solos sound a lot different. Also, double stops become a lot more interesting and aggressive -- you can reach a 7th. I don't try to play a huge number of notes, and the bow helps with that because you can do more with tone and bowing, likewise on upright bass.

I have no idea if I'll ever play it in public, but it's a great living room / basement band instrument. I've taken it to my basement band, and it amplifies pretty well with an Ehrlund upright bass pickup.

When I do play bass lines, they're a lot more effective with the bow than pizz. Jazz pizz bass is something that really can't be reproduced except maybe on tuba.

Breaking out of old habits is probably the best reason to play an instrument tuned in 5ths. In my experience, doing this will also free up your bass playing, partly because it breaks down automatic mental constructs that make it harder to think outside the box.

 

[delta7fred]

Of course this would not relate to a fretted instrument.

Sorry for any confusion caused.
I was only referring to fret positions because we are on a bass guitar side and most readers will understand that.

I am right in saying the D position in DB terminology?