Marginal interest in upright bass

[Wasnex]

. To each their own. I know that gut strings aren't the most versatile but they just felt right to me and I loved their sound... they felt lower tension, or at least the one set I tried

Absolutely.

I preferred and would have continued using gut strings at the beginning of my development, but they were difficult to source, and the second and third G string broke before it reached pitch. This was just before an All Region concert and I was 1st chair. Luckily another player had some used strings.

The next time I tried gut strings was about 15 years later. The tension was lower, but they sounded awful with the bow and I didn't like the way the (noticeably larger) strings rolled under my fingers. By this time my expectations and also my gear had changed, so the gut strings were no longer optimal for my needs. I immediately removed the gut strings after a short audition.

I believe this was the day I installed my first set of Spirocore Weichs. For the next 10+ years or so, I alternated between Weichs or regular Spirocore as my preferred string. The Weichs were too raspy with the bow on some instruments.

I only learned of the Obligatos at the very end of my playing career. I have noodled around on a few basses with Obligatos and been amazed, but I never played these strings regularly for an extended time. Some users compare Obligatos to gut strings, and I believe a common complaint is they roll under your finger a bit like gut strings.

 

[Reiska]

IMO it`s best to start with standard steel string like Spirocore light. Can`t go wrong with those as there is no string with better note definition and clarity to hear yourself. They last forever too. With that said, I`m totally into gut strings and play exclusively guts for at least G and D. They demand another learning curve, but if that`s the sound you`re hearing you ain`t going to get it elsewhere. They last long too if you maintain them properly and if you don`t sweat acid.

 

[Wasnex]

The 5000 - 10000 comment you quote is a bit weird. Yes, it seems that in US very popular workhorse instrument is a older german shop bass or newer asian, US or european carved bass. These are in that prise range, but in reality you can get a decent ply bass for way less, starting from 1500 -ish. Carved top hybrid basses start from 2000 -ish and fully carved from 3000 -ish. Even vintage American Standard plys, which are really sought after, go under 5000 bucks.

My point is that you totally can get a professional quality and craftmanship, beautiful, great sounding and playing gigging instrument for the rest of your life for way under 5000 bucks. Professional classical world is a bit of it`s own animal in this regard, that`s where the truly expensive basses are a norm.

I have had the pleasure of playing world class instruments and junk. You can surely get by gigging on cheap bass and even find one with a nice setup that plays easily. The only string bass I have ever owned personally cost $200 and had a horrible wolf tone on the G string. I used this bass only to practice and win an audition. I set it up to play like butter and sold it for $400 with full disclosure on the wolf tone and some major problems hidden in the bass.

The last instrument I played regularly was a Lakeberg Baer purchased for over $15000 in the mid 1990s. Great orchestral bass, but did not amplify very well and was also extremely fragile.

When I was still touring I used to stop into some of the big bass houses. It was rare to find a bass that I thought was nice for anything under $5000, but occasionally I would come across a Shen or Christopher for around $3,500 that was exceptional. Probably the nicest bass I have played in recent memory was a Horst Grunert...I have played several Grunert basses and they were all fabulous. In my opinion this is a phenomenal German builder, but last time I checked, starting prices were well over $10,000 USD and rising become more players were taking notice.

 

[Reiska]

My bass is a Jay Haide l`ancienne Panormo, pretty similar to Shen carved basses. It`s designed in US and made in China, and the asking prise here was originally 6750€. I got very lucky and got it for steal, I paid 4500 if I recall.

One thing about uprights is the size. 3/4 is the way to go, but basses vary wildly in that category, there really are no standards. Mine is labeled 3/4, but it really is a 7/8 with it`s italian shape and deep ribs. To be honest, it`s a tad too big for me, but whenever that has become a problem I`ve sortened out some kind of way to overcome it. With big size and light weight comes a big, resonating woody tone. I love it.

My point here is that if one is about to buy her / his first upright, it`s good to get one that feels good and plays as effortlesly as possible. It`s best to have someone with you who knows about basses and can play one. This way you have a knowledgeable wiev on your purchase and you can hear your choices played from a distance, which is totally different than to the drivers seat. A good option is to hire a bass teacher for your support when you`re making the final purchasing decision.

 

[Vinny Vincenzo]

Bought a Thompson hybrid 6 months ago, great bass fur under 2500, owned several basses mostly old plys the workmanship on these basses are excellent. Put guts on it great bass.

 

[LBS-bass]

The guy I would take lessons from suggested a hybrid from http://www.stringemporium.com/ but I would undoubtedly rent or borrow before I bought anything. Thoughts on this vendor?

 

[Wasnex]

The guy I would take lessons from suggested a hybrid from http://www.stringemporium.com/ but I would undoubtedly rent or borrow before I bought anything. Thoughts on this vendor?

I agree with @Reiska , if possible, it is way better to go somewhere and play several basses to find one you like. I think it's easier to find a good instrument if you have a lot of money to spend, but I have gone to bass houses and played down a row of >$10,000 instruments and not liked any of them.

If you play 5 basses that are the same model, each will probably have a fairly unique personality. Take your time and find an instrument that you can bond with. I suggest playing as many as possible, so you develop the necessary perspective to know when you have found a good one. And don't just play the ones you can afford. Play nice basses, so you learn to really recognize value when you come across desirable qualities in a bass in your price range.

 

[Reiska]

The guy I would take lessons from suggested a hybrid from http://www.stringemporium.com/ but I would undoubtedly rent or borrow before I bought anything. Thoughts on this vendor?

Renting one for testing the waters is a great idea! It`s just best to make sure that the rental bass is set up well by a luthier who knows basses / string instruments. A good and practical, easy playing setup is crucial on DB`s and especially when beginning. When some time passes and you figure out your preferences the setup will propably become a balancing act between playability and acoustic output, but until then it`s all about ease of playing. We don`t want it ANY harder than it allready is.

Edit: I`m not in US, but from what I`ve read here about Stringemporium I`ve understood that it`s a reputable shop that doesn`t sell crap.

 

[MD]

The guy I would take lessons from suggested a hybrid from http://www.stringemporium.com/ but I would undoubtedly rent or borrow before I bought anything. Thoughts on this vendor?

I've heard of them, never dealt with - not playing my DB much these days. If I were going mail order, I'd be looking at Upton as well. I think they'll build a bass to spec. Also, check out the "luthier directory" page here at Gullihur (all hail) Music.
Not sure where in CA. you are, but if there's some one near by, it's a good place to start.

 

[Wasnex]

Renting one for testing the waters is a great idea! It`s just best to make sure that the rental bass is set up well by a luthier who knows basses / string instruments. A good and practical, easy playing setup is crucial on DB`s and especially when beginning. When some time passes and you figure out your preferences the setup will propably become a balancing act between playability and acoustic output, but until then it`s all about ease of playing. We don`t want it ANY harder than it allready is.

Edit: I`m not in US, but from what I`ve read here about Stringemporium I`ve understood that it`s a reputable shop that doesn`t sell crap.

I found one of the most incredible sounding and playing upright basses I have ever come across in a small string shop in San Antonio Texas. I showed it to another bass player in my organization and he agreed it was incredible and bought the bass. I was a bit hesitant because it was a very old bass, and the shop had completed some pretty major structural repairs, including grafting in some new wood to the front panel I believe. The work was solid though.

My friend held and played the bass for several years with no problems, and wound up selling it to fund a pearwood Horst Grunert that was nearing completion. He actually brought several Grunert basses into our facility so we could play through and find the one we like best. The pearwood Grunert turned out to be a great bass, but I preferred the tone of the old bass for the type of work I do. The Grunert probably would have been better in a symphony bass section though.

Since I pretty much always play with an amp, the setup can be low and easy. Early in my training all of the classical players seemed to have a high setup for maximum acoustic power. But as I moved around, I came across the philosophy of having a low, easy playing setup for maximum facility even in symphonic bass sections. The last person I took lessons from had a very powerful 7/8 bass that played with very little effort...loud and little effort is a rare combination in a string bass and his basses were insured for a large sum of money.

It's pretty common to "chop" basses that are larger than 3/4 size. Chop means modifications are done to shorten the string length, such as moving the nut, and possibly repositioning the bridge and sound post.

If you read the description of the Big Mittenwald in the link below, the bass has been chopped. Notice the position of the nut in the image of the scroll.
http://www.stringemporium.com/basscafe.htm

The bass I found in San Antonio was a small 3/4. It played exceptionally and I thought it was loud for its size.

 

[Vinny Vincenzo]

The guy I would take lessons from suggested a hybrid from http://www.stringemporium.com/ but I would undoubtedly rent or borrow before I bought anything. Thoughts on this vendor?

That’s where I bought my bass, nervous at first but after talking with the owner I did it, and also I saw a guy playing one of there plys a few months prior and I was impressed.mine arrived in perfect condition and just slightly out of tune. I’m gonna be honest, I’m super anal when it comes to my instruments I check every inch. This bass is really nice and sounds good too.for what I do this bass fits the bill. Was looking at a couple of older Kay’s and a fifties king but didn’t want to spend that kind of money on something I would have to get work done to. I used to get those basses for practically nothing then replace boards, bridges endpins or whatever to make them right. I’m very happy with my purchase.

 

[Pilgrim]

I had an old King Mortone blonde bass with a German neck and gut strings for years. It wasn't an orchestral bass, but for dance band, country, bluegrass or rockabilly, it was unbeatable!

They are hard to find, though, and not cheap. Mine looked a lot like this, but rougher...

 

[fhm555]

My marginal interest in upright was tempered by the idea of laying out north of $2500 in hopes i’d like or even be able to stick with it long enough to actually wind up becoming even marginally competent.

 

[Vinny Vincenzo]

I’ve played some really good old plys and a lot of crap ones but the money they want for old plys nowadays at least around here are ridiculous, just like the vintage market with fender basses. I’ve played a lot of crap from the 50s and 60s as well as good ones, there’s a lot of new basses that exceed the quality of old basses, my opinion.

 

[Vinny Vincenzo]

My marginal interest in upright was tempered by the idea of laying out north of $2500 in hopes i’d like or even be able to stick with it long enough to actually wind up becoming even marginally competent.

That being said, holdout till you are absolutely sure, rent one and see if it bites you

 

[fhm555]

That being said, holdout till you are absolutely sure, rent one and see if it bites you

No rentals local. We do have a top tier mom and pop that usually has a good selection and honest owners interested in a relationship with their customers rather than a one and done sale. That’s where i was told to realistically expect to put in $2500 for a decent starter with a proper setup.

 

[Vinny Vincenzo]

No rentals local. We do have a top tier mom and pop that usually has a good selection and honest owners interested in a relationship with their customers rather than a one and done sale. That’s where i was told to realistically expect to put in $2500 for a decent starter with a proper setup.

I can’t say for sure about price my hybrid came a little under 2500, but the guy I saw playing a Thompson ply paid under 1400 I believe and he had a really nice sound but the decision is ultimately yours in the long run, my bass reminds me a lot of an old jusek I used to own.

 

[Reiska]

I found one of the most incredible sounding and playing upright basses I have ever come across in a small string shop in San Antonio Texas. I showed it to another bass player in my organization and he agreed it was incredible and bought the bass. I was a bit hesitant because it was a very old bass, and the shop had completed some pretty major structural repairs, including grafting in some new wood to the front panel I believe. The work was solid though.

My friend held and played the bass for several years with no problems, and wound up selling it to fund a pearwood Horst Grunert that was nearing completion. He actually brought several Grunert basses into our facility so we could play through and find the one we like best. The pearwood Grunert turned out to be a great bass, but I preferred the tone of the old bass for the type of work I do. The Grunert probably would have been better in a symphony bass section though.

Since I pretty much always play with an amp, the setup can be low and easy. Early in my training all of the classical players seemed to have a high setup for maximum acoustic power. But as I moved around, I came across the philosophy of having a low, easy playing setup for maximum facility even in symphonic bass sections. The last person I took lessons from had a very powerful 7/8 bass that played with very little effort...loud and little effort is a rare combination in a string bass and his basses were insured for a large sum of money.

It's pretty common to "chop" basses that are larger than 3/4 size. Chop means modifications are done to shorten the string length, such as moving the nut, and possibly repositioning the bridge and sound post.

If you read the description of the Big Mittenwald in the link below, the bass has been chopped. Notice the position of the nut in the image of the scroll.
http://www.stringemporium.com/basscafe.htm

The bass I found in San Antonio was a small 3/4. It played exceptionally and I thought it was loud for its size.

I`m in the exact opposite camp, high strings, acoustic if possible Guts need to be set high to work properly, but they`re very low tension.

 

[fdeck]

Not to derail... but have you switched to the D'Addario 4th tuning cello strings, or are you still in standard?
Just curious.

Carry on...

I'm going to stick with fifths tuning. When I was a teenager, I played both cello and electric bass, and was able to go back and forth, as if I had two brains. The cello fingering came back quite quickly, reading is still a bit of a work in progress. I'm working my way through the bass clef real book, focusing on the tunes that I don't aleady know.

 

[Wasnex]

I'm going to stick with fifths tuning. When I was a teenager, I played both cello and electric bass, and was able to go back and forth, as if I had two brains. The cello fingering came back quite quickly, reading is still a bit of a work in progress. I'm working my way through the bass clef real book, focusing on the tunes that I don't aleady know.

Tuning in 5ths is reasonably manageable on cello. Tuning the instrument in fourths would probably be a handicap. Playing certain cello pieces on an instrument tuned in 4ths results in some incredibly messy shifts that greatly limit speed in which the pieces can be played...at least that's my experience. But I can not see the sense in tuning a string bass or even an electric bass in 5ths. Seems that would result in even more shifting due to the extended scale. I know some people do it, but it's not for me.