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Markbass Amp repair?

#61
Mike Dimin said:
Are you saying $300 for one PC board? Knowing what it costs to build an amp, that is outrageous.

Performance is a matter of taste. I first heard MB at the NAMM show when they had a tiny little both and one artist/rep. My opinion (please note, that I said 'my opinion") was that they were too colored for my taste, too much distortion in the low mids. They're great if you dig that tone, just not my cup of tea
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well the $300 was for the repair of a board and some busted solders plus a volume pot. someone else last year had a board replaced that he said was $415.

and hey, everyone's entitled to their opinions. if everything was for everybody, there would only be one amp maker on the market.
 
#62
I just assume that if the Asians want a design, the lack of a schematic is an annoyance as they already have bought an amp to study circuit board layout, manufacturing techniques, etc. Like that old saying, if a pro wants to steal something, a burglar alarm is just a minor hinderance.

Good point about basic high tech designs being used for other applications.
Was the helicopter amp design public domain or did you guys work on that initially?
 
#63
JimmyM said:
repairing solders is usually a minimal hourly labor rate. most techs i know will bill you for an hour of work repairing solders and lubing parts. either they are the most complex solder repairs in history or they're making a big profit.
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Repairing a solder joint is simple and cheap. However finding the bad solder joint , especially without a schematic can take hours or even days. I have been designing, building and repairing amps since the early 70s so I have a little experience in what I am talking about. Replacing a pot is not necessarily that easy either. Until you have seen and worked on some of the torture chambers called amps you have no idea. Never been in a Markbass but I have been in enough others to know there are certain brands I will just not work on at all.
 
#64
mcr, under normal circumstances i could see your point. but considering that high tech electronics is THE markbass repair center in the usa, ok, maybe i could buy into the idea that it's more complicated than usual to repair a solder or replace a pot on one of their boards, but they have the schematics and tools needed to make that job much easier and quicker. and on board replacements, all they do is plug into a diagnostic tool, find out whether a board is sound or not, and then pull the entire board and replace it. no reason on earth that should cost $415 imho.
 
#66
You fellows really know how to scare a guy. I was planning on picking up a Little Mark III come Monday. Now, I'm not so sure.

I could probably fix it myself, but I haven't had a working oscope in the house in 15 years. Soldering surface mount isn't big deal until you get down to the 0402 passive package sizes and, of course, BGA packages et al.

I have soldered hundreds of surface mount components with nothing but a princess iron. It isn't fun, and it isn't production speed, but it can get the job done in a pinch..

Anyway, all this talk about the lack of schematics has got me thinking that I should just get a generic power amp and build my own preamp. Except there would be a bit of learning curve - back in the day I was a digital guy. I never did much with audio other than building a few drum triggers.
 
#68
Jim C said:
I just assume that if the Asians want a design, the lack of a schematic is an annoyance as they already have bought an amp to study circuit board layout, manufacturing techniques, etc. Like that old saying, if a pro wants to steal something, a burglar alarm is just a minor hinderance.
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Yep, it just depends on how much money you want to throw at it.

I could create schematics for most double layer PCB's using just an oscope, DMM, function generator, soldering iron, and x-acto knife.

Multilayer boards require an xray (or possibly something better nowadays).

The real rub comes with MCU's, FPGA, etc. The programs can usually be recovered but it can be hugely expensive.

Either way, not providing a schematic is only a speedbump - not a roadblock.

PS: As for not providing a schematic for consumer liability reasons, put it inside the device. The device is not supposed to be opened except by qualified service personnel, right? :)
 
#69
wow, how naive i was back when i first got it:

"I don't see any reason why the cost of repair would be any different whether you swap out boards or replace giant SVT transformers or whatever. I got hit with a $300 bill to replace the caps in my 73 Super Reverb, replace a broken pot and knob, and convert it to blackface specs, so if it costs $300 to swap out a board, what's the difference? But I would think the likelihood of getting a repair bill like that for a $600 amp would be less. One place it definitely saves money is in bench charges. Can't take very long to test an amp at predetermined points, pop out a bad board and pop in a good new one."

boy was i wrong about that! sorry guys...obviously i was talking out of my butt on that one! holy geez! never expected these board swaps to be that much. you have my humble apologies.
 
#72
BigInThe80s said:
You fellows really know how to scare a guy. I was planning on picking up a Little Mark III come Monday. Now, I'm not so sure.
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Zero issue IMO. The warranty is rock solid, and my understanding is that they are in the process of greatly expanding the repair station network in the US, since they now are close to having some amps/speakers that have been around for a while that are finally 'out of warranty'.

Very few reliability issues reported on these amps, and that single large repair bill example that gets posted over and over again seems to be a strange one-off, from what I remember.

However, if you are one who wants to repair your own amp, my guess is, you are stuck with buying some old iron these days.
 
#75
KJung said:
Zero issue IMO. The warranty is rock solid, and my understanding is that they are in the process of greatly expanding the repair station network in the US, since they now are close to having some amps/speakers that have been around for a while that are finally 'out of warranty'.

Very few reliability issues reported on these amps, and that single large repair bill example that gets posted over and over again seems to be a strange one-off, from what I remember.

However, if you are one who wants to repair your own amp, my guess is, you are stuck with buying some old iron these days.
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yeah, i feel so stuck with my old iron ;)

anyway, you are correct about reliability. i never had a problem with my lmii and it's rare you hear about a problem. but when you do, man, who wants to pay more than the value of the amp to get it fixed?
 
#77
okcrum said:
Yup, and the new lead free solders have had a persistent problem with cracking of the solder joint over time. That's why the lead free solder is mandated only in consumer gear and not medical, aerospace, or military gear yet.

It's not that most shops can't fix these amps, technically. It's that the more complex surface mount parts work requires hot air soldering tools that cost lots of money compared to a soldering iron. Newer parts also require a stereo microscope, since a resistor may now be the size of a flea, literally.
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That sems to be something that many overlook. Newer amps aren't exactly Heathkits or Dynakits.
:D
 
#78
Mike Dimin said:
MB is interesting case. They were rather a rather small, boutique builder until they signed on with the "evil empire" Those big box music stores that try to put all of our mom and pop stores out of business. Putting one's long term success into the hands of a company like that is an interesting risk.

Whether the company is large or small I truly understand why they will not make schematics available. To this we can agree to disagree. We live in a litigious society and many "hobbyists" know a lot less than they think that they do.
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If it were my company and designs I wouldn't distribute schematics to just anyone.
 
#79
KJung said:
Zero issue IMO. The warranty is rock solid, and my understanding is that they are in the process of greatly expanding the repair station network in the US, since they now are close to having some amps/speakers that have been around for a while that are finally 'out of warranty'.

Very few reliability issues reported on these amps, and that single large repair bill example that gets posted over and over again seems to be a strange one-off, from what I remember.

However, if you are one who wants to repair your own amp, my guess is, you are stuck with buying some old iron these days.
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If this thread or a thread like it is all it takes to scare someone off a product it's probably for the best. OTOH I've had several years of flawless performance out of my LMII and have absolutely no hesitation in continuing to use it. Now would I feel more comfortable that another amp with a higher likelihood of failure is easier to fix?

Heck no. My favorite customer service is the kind I don't have to use. But that's just me. As far as being a gigging musician without your amp due to repair downtime... isn't that why many of us keep spares? And these repair cost judgements many are pulling out of their butts don't really help IME. If you actually know what's involved in doing the specific repair, cool. Then you can speak intelligently towards it. Otherwise...
:hmm:
 

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