Markbass Megathread PART 3

[Brad Johnson]

(half-wishing I ordered the 15" instead of the 12" extension cab)

Probably should've, based on my experience. My main rig is a couple of relatively tiny cabs, Nahas 1-12 with horn and a 1-15 with no horn. I've been using them for several years and trying other stuff out in the meantime. Still my go to rig.

The 15 is a perfect complement to the 12 and vice versa. The 15 just adds a much more immediate low end kick and reinforced the 12's punch. I've heard bigger boxes go low but they don't hit as hard in a punchy sort of way, they don't stop and start as quickly as this setup. It's a thing of beauty on a gig.

On many occassions I've gotten the "where's the rest of you amp" look, only to be followed by amazement and big grins once I soundcheck. It sounds like way more than the sum of two cabs. Adding another 12 would sound nice but adding a 15 gives me a kick I don't get otherwise.

You can get an idea of how small the rig is by the gig bags beside it.

Side view, with a Bag End S15-D. AMP BH420 amp.

 

[BassyBill]

Brad, that sums up how the 210 combo sounds with the 15 I've just bought. The smaller 15 doesn't quite have the deep, deep lows of some cabs, but it has a hell of a lot of punch and enough bottom end for any sane person. Maybe if I was a 5 string player I might think differently.

I'm really looking forward to trying this new 151P out on a gig with the 102P. No gig now until the 29th, though - oh well, it picks back up again in the New Year a bit.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Brad, that sums up how the 210 combo sounds with the 15 I've just bought. The smaller 15 doesn't quite have the deep, deep lows of some cabs, but it has a hell of a lot of punch and enough bottom end for any sane person. Maybe if I was a 5 string player I might think differently.

I'm really looking forward to trying this new 151P out on a gig with the 102P. No gig now until the 29th, though - oh well, it picks back up again in the New Year a bit.

No, I doubt you would think differently with a 5. Most of my basses have low B's and this love affair started when I found out how much better several speakers have sounded just by adding the tiny Bag End 1-15 to the mix. Kevin Brubaker was adding one to an Eden D410XLT and it was amazing how much it expanded AND tightened up the low end. My Nahas rig started with the 1-12 coupled with the Bag End. Sounded amazing.

I learned from experience that it's not necessary to have a cab go flat to 20hz... in my case, it's not even desirable. Even with a low B. If I were playing cds, cool... for live electric bass it just gets in the way IME IMO.

 

[greenboy]

I learned from experience that it's not necessary to have a cab go flat to 20hz... in my case, it's not even desirable. Even with a low B.

Yaw, if a high-output fifteen can hit 60 Hz with appreciable output it'll really give a rig more impact, and actually causes less problems in some circumstances.

 

[Vic]

I learned from experience that it's not necessary to have a cab go flat to 20hz... in my case, it's not even desirable. Even with a low B.

+1

This is why I generally don't like cabs with 15's in them. There are exceptions, but I've generally had better luck with cabs based on 10's and 12's.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Probably should've, based on my experience. My main rig is a couple of relatively tiny cabs, Nahas 1-12 with horn and a 1-15 with no horn. I've been using them for several years and trying other stuff out in the meantime. Still my go to rig.

Ooh, that's a nice rig! I like the bass too.

OK I'm sold.. a 12" and 15" looks like a nice combination.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I learned from experience that it's not necessary to have a cab go flat to 20hz... in my case, it's not even desirable. Even with a low B. If I were playing cds, cool... for live electric bass it just gets in the way IME IMO.

This is so true. many times I recording plugged directly into my mixer, and a lot of times I press the 75 Hz low cut. It tightens up the bottom end and gives a different tone to the low mids. More of a low growl.

We mostly hear the harmonics on bass notes, and not so much the fundamental.

 

[JimmyM]

Dang you Brad, showing me that rig of yours! I already ordered the Tuki cover for the 12" extension so now I'm stuck!

 

[Brad Johnson]

+1

This is why I generally don't like cabs with 15's in them. There are exceptions, but I've generally had better luck with cabs based on 10's and 12's.

I was replacing pickups on a friend's Marcus Miller Jazz and brought in a VL210 to check it out after I finish. With the LMII I was getting way more extreme low end than I needed, much like a subwoofer. I rolled off the lowest EQ band a couple of clicks and was then able to dial in all the lows I needed right at the bass. I sat there jamming with a Korg PX4B for about four hours. Time flies...

The extreme low end doesn't seem to stop and start as quickly as I would like... if it did I probably wouldn't have the issue I have with it. That's why I really like the Bag End 15's and love my Nahas 15 (it also goes higher than most 15's)... they go low enough for me

 

[Brad Johnson]

This is so true. many times I recording plugged directly into my mixer, and a lot of times I press the 75 Hz low cut. It tightens up the bottom end and gives a different tone to the low mids. More of a low growl.

We mostly hear the harmonics on bass notes, and not so much the fundamental.

Agreed.

I think that most people think more is better. I figured out a long time ago that for me, enough is enough. I don't need or want more.

 

[figuredbass]

You all make excellent points about cutting low end, or just not having it in excess. But I think I'm one of the exceptions here. I absolutely have to hear a decent amount of fundamental down to 30 Hz. I picked up this disease as a little kid after hearing the bass stops in a real pipe organ in a church. If I hear too much second harmonic in relation to the fundamental, it drives me nuts! This is not to say I prefer a very scooped sound either, because I don't. As much as I need the fundamental down there, I also really need to hear the low mids and center mids to provide pitch definition, the basic voice of the instrument, and to cut through and sit properly in the mix. So I'm trying to "get under" the band as well as "cut through" it. It's a very difficult balance to achieve, but the Epifani UL310/LMII does this very well for me with the jazz basses I play using the Sadowsky preamp.

 

[JimmyM]

Brad, after looking at your way cool rig, I think I'm going to do some experimenting with my B-15N cab. I really don't ever play loud enough for it to blow out (rated at 100w), even at my loudest, so I think I'm going to do some gigs with it and the combo and then see how it compares with the 12" ext cab I'm getting. Tonight I used just the combo on a gig where I didn't go DI, and when I got offstage to listen I kind of felt like it was missing something in the low end. Could be as simple as needing the ext cab. Or maybe I'm getting to the point where I want to biamp on no-PA gigs. Or maybe I should have left the old strings on my SX P copy.

Or maybe I'm so bedazzled by spending a small fortune on a new amp rig and now my mind is racing at the possibilities instead of focusing on making what I have now work for me. Besides, I've never been a huge fan of biamping. I've tried it, and my favorite biamped sound sounds pretty much identical to what I like in a full-range cab system. Oh well, maybe if I can find something small like your 15" cab that's somewhat cheap, I'll get one. But I think I'm about done buying new MB stuff. I'll go broke!

 

[JimmyM]

Great! Now I really have a dilemma! I have the 12" on order, but after ABing my LM II between my combo and my B-15N cab, I really think I should have bought the 15". The combo sounds very full and rich, but it's missing that big round low end that comes out of my B speaker. And together it's a dream sound! Unfortunately, I have already ordered a $75 Tuki cover for the 12" cab and I've already sent back one Tuki cover for an amp I decided not to keep, and I'd feel bad about doing it again to them since everything is made to order. So now I will have a 12" combo and a 12" ext cab, and since everything is 8 ohms, if I get an 8-ohm 15" there's apparently no way I can hook up 3 cabs together without using another amp (MB has a 4 ohm minimum).

Do I cancel the 12" and order the 15" and eat the money for the Tuki cover and pray someday that someone else will want it for a fraction of what I paid for it? Or do I keep both 12"s and buy a used 15" cab? And is there a way to use a 15" and 2 8-ohm 12"s that won't drop me to below 4 ohms? I have to tell you that I'm leaning toward cancelling the 12" and getting a 15" cab. But I hate buying stuff I can't use, and knowing that I spent $75 on a Tuki cover and not being able to use it will eat away at me. And it's not like the 12" won't put out the 40hz that the 15" does.

I think I'm going to quit playing bass altogether rather than this constant torturing and second-guessing myself

 

[kasbrey]

JimmyM - When you try the 121H I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

[air_leech]

Great! Now I really have a dilemma! I have the 12" on order, but after ABing my LM II between my combo and my B-15N cab, I really think I should have bought the 15". The combo sounds very full and rich, but it's missing that big round low end that comes out of my B speaker. And together it's a dream sound! Unfortunately, I have already ordered a $75 Tuki cover for the 12" cab and I've already sent back one Tuki cover for an amp I decided not to keep, and I'd feel bad about doing it again to them since everything is made to order. So now I will have a 12" combo and a 12" ext cab, and since everything is 8 ohms, if I get an 8-ohm 15" there's apparently no way I can hook up 3 cabs together without using another amp (MB has a 4 ohm minimum).

I think I'm going to quit playing bass altogether rather than this constant torturing and second-guessing myself

Ashdown made a powered 15" cab.
if you can find one it may be the solution for running 3 cabs.

anyway, I think it's better to have wasted 75$ for a cover you don't need and get the cab you want rather than putting your hard earned money for a cab which is not exactly what you want just because you already bought it's cover.

I mean - the 12" wont solve you GAS for 15" so why not put your money on what want?!

 

[phat daddy]

+ 1000. JimmyM, seriously, I think the 2x12 rig is going to work for you just fine. Those Markbass 12's are extremely good full-range cabs, and you're going to be doubling your low-end with another. I agree that Brad's rig looks cool (especially that bass ), but most people who do the 2x12 MB thing end up extremely happy. What I suggest you do since you've already placed the order for the cab and the cover is to go ahead and get the cab in and try it out on a gig, and if you're not satisfied, then send it all back. GC has a 60 day return policy on MB gear as I'm sure you know, so you're not taking any real risk by doing so.

 

[phat daddy]

I meant +1000 on Kasbrey's post by the way, not to be confusing.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You all make excellent points about cutting low end, or just not having it in excess. But I think I'm one of the exceptions here. I absolutely have to hear a decent amount of fundamental down to 30 Hz. I picked up this disease as a little kid after hearing the bass stops in a real pipe organ in a church. If I hear too much second harmonic in relation to the fundamental, it drives me nuts! This is not to say I prefer a very scooped sound either, because I don't. As much as I need the fundamental down there, I also really need to hear the low mids and center mids to provide pitch definition, the basic voice of the instrument, and to cut through and sit properly in the mix. So I'm trying to "get under" the band as well as "cut through" it. It's a very difficult balance to achieve, but the Epifani UL310/LMII does this very well for me with the jazz basses I play using the Sadowsky preamp.

This is just a guess but I think that because of the longer wavelengths, whenever I play through a cab that goes "too low for me" the notes don't stop as quickly... they linger in my soundspace, stepping on the next notes or the silence I desire real time. I'm a control freak and it's out of my control at that point... I have to wait for it to end. For example if I do a staccato slap on my low B, I want it staccato, not continuing to sound for fractions of a second.

That's my problem with it. If someone has a solution I'm all ears.

 

[Brad Johnson]

+ 1000. JimmyM, seriously, I think the 2x12 rig is going to work for you just fine. Those Markbass 12's are extremely good full-range cabs, and you're going to be doubling your low-end with another. I agree that Brad's rig looks cool (especially that bass ), but most people who do the 2x12 MB thing end up extremely happy. What I suggest you do since you've already placed the order for the cab and the cover is to go ahead and get the cab in and try it out on a gig, and if you're not satisfied, then send it all back. GC has a 60 day return policy on MB gear as I'm sure you know, so you're not taking any real risk by doing so.

Most people who hear my rig live end up extremely happy.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Ashdown made a powered 15" cab.
if you can find one it may be the solution for running 3 cabs.

anyway, I think it's better to have wasted 75$ for a cover you don't need and get the cab you want rather than putting your hard earned money for a cab which is not exactly what you want just because you already bought it's cover.

I mean - the 12" wont solve you GAS for 15" so why not put your money on what want?!

Some friends an I are always experimenting with different cab combinations at Atomic Music, a local used gear store. That's how I came across the 1-12/1-15 thing.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago the had one of the newer Eden D112XT cabs (IIRC). Sounded decent, nothing earth-shaking, driving it witha GK 1001RB. Then we addeda smallish Ashdown 1-15. Non-powered.



I'm past the point of thinking this is a coincidence. The setup was a perfect complement for each other. While we didn't get it up to gig levels, we got it loud enough to hear how the single source of sound that resulted when these two cabs worked together. This is what biamping is supposed to achieve and it happened without biamping. Both cabs were run full range.