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MASSIVE boomy E all across the board.

attackz

attackz

Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2006
526
370
California
#1
As the thread title suggests I'm currently having problems with the note "E" and occasionally D and Eflat. It seems to be far louder and much more boomy than any other note, to the extent that it completely drowns out the band and turns our sound in to mud. This happens in three places:

Measurements are a complete guess:
The bands practice room Medium sixe (20ft * 20 ft apporx)
Another band practice room (Quite small, 15*10 approx)
My practice room at home (very small) (6ft*8f/t)


My righ currently consists of:
Mesa Boogie 400+ - Eq settings Bass 2, Middle 9 Treble 4
Ampeg SVT 410 (Horn on -5 db)
Fender Jazz with John East Preamp (Boominess happens in active and passive mode)

If it was just happening in one room I'd blame the room for just being boomy but as it's happening in multiple locations I'm worried it's something to do with my set up. It may be worth noting that on a gig or in a large room it seems fine.

I've tried cutting all of the bass in my sound (at 40 hz, 80, hz and 100 hz independantly and together) and even when my bass is on the whole sounding really thin the E notes stick out like a sore thumb.

So I'm calling on the collective TB knowledge to help me sort this out, does anyone have any idea what the problem could be? Is it just poorly designed rooms?

FWIW I have tried running my bass through a guitar cab and it seems to make all As boomy!?
 
#2
Are you noting this when playing by yourself, or noting this when playing with guitarists/others? If by yourself, then I'd say it's the room: very difficult to get loud, clear and NOT boomy in those rooms, based on size. How does the setup sound in a gig, with a proper room size?
 
#3
Are you noting this when playing by yourself, or noting this when playing with guitarists/others? If by yourself, then I'd say it's the room: very difficult to get loud, clear and NOT boomy in those rooms, based on size. How does the setup sound in a gig, with a proper room size?
Click to expand...

Both, although not on a gig in a decent size venue. In the band rehearsal space it's really noticable even when a full band is playing, it's equally noticable when practicing in my small practice room.

Any tips to make it stop?
 
#4
applerocks said:
Both, although not on a gig in a decent size venue. In the band rehearsal space it's really noticable even when a full band is playing, it's equally noticable when practicing in my small practice room.

Any tips to make it stop?
Click to expand...

Then it's probably the room, and short of changing physics (sorry to say), you'll have a choice to make. You can cut back on the frequencies (eq sliders or knob) but the tone isn't going to be ideal, or you can go for the tone that you like and it's going to be boomy.

I'd say cut back on the low end in practices even if you think it sounds bad. Two benefits: not boomy, and less temptation for others to play louder or "over" the boom, which also helps save your hearing.

Save the great tones for the stage.

Plus not always having that ever-present low end pillow of deep, thick sound makes you even more appreciative when you CAN have it, and make you feel not as much like a fish out of water when you can't (the gymnasium/auditorium or otherwise sonically challenged gig)!

Also the guitar players (and their Es) don't help at all in a small practice space.
 
#9
After rereading your first post I have the solution to your problem...get a smaller amp. Part of the problem probably lies in the fact that you are running a tube amp so low in these smaller rooms that it cannot develop its full tone. How loud do you turn up the Mesa and 410 in these practice rooms?

Also, a 410 cabinet is essentially a stright throw cabinet and you don't get full definition on it unless you are 10+ feet away. Some of these rooms aren't even that big and that could be contributing to your problem
 
#11
It could possibly be helpful to run a pink noise test in your rehearsal rooms, starting with the band rehearsal space, just to see if the room is doing anything weird at low frequencies. Run some pink noise through the PA (if you have one) at rehearsal volume in the band rehearsal space, set up a mic in the room, and see what the spectrum of the pink noise passed through the room looks like VS regular pink noise (I think Audacity can do spectral analysis...). If there's huge bumps below 100HZ, that would likely mean that the physical nature of the room is reinforcing the low end and making things sound muddy. If not, then...

You can try the same "pink noise test" through your bass rig at rehearsal volume, record what it sounds like in the room, and examine it using a spectral analyzer, looking for similar funny stuff in the low end below 100HZ.

I think you should be able to tell after doing these kinds of tests (probably would take 30 min or so to do both the room and the amp) whether the bass rig or the room itself might be causing the boominess. (Anyone who has done this sort of thing before, please correct me if I'm wrong about this!)
 
#12
This kinda thing kills me. I have had the same type of thing happen. The first thing I check is mike stands and bass drum mikes. The bass drum can act as a Hemholtz resonator.

Invalid Link Removed

The biggest offender is when my drummer had a mike stand rigged to his drum "rack" with a gooseneck (you know, the 80's rock drummer thing). When he went conventional drums, problem disappeared. If your stage/platform has subs underneith it, that will cause trouble.
This resonant thing on a few notes is usually contact feedback when the notes "swell" and run away from you.
 
#14
Them furry little critters worse than mice they are, you can set traps for them though with large loose packed bales of rockwool placed in the corners if they are wrapped in plastic you can give your drummer the
job of making as many holes in it as he can with a drum stick, thats to let them little acoustics in. (he will enjoy that).
You see the acoustics go into the traps and when they are ready to come out they find it hard to get out so when they do they are then late for the sequence of all other little acoustics that are running back and forth between the walls so the little ****ers all crash into each other in a heap and stop these waves of little ****ers doing your bass end in.
As your playing in a square box try putting more bales at one end to
make the room less square.
:hyper:
 
#15
Thanks for all the help guys! Now to answer a few questions:

After rereading your first post I have the solution to your problem...get a smaller amp. Part of the problem probably lies in the fact that you are running a tube amp so low in these smaller rooms that it cannot develop its full tone. How loud do you turn up the Mesa and 410 in these practice rooms?

Also, a 410 cabinet is essentially a stright throw cabinet and you don't get full definition on it unless you are 10+ feet away. Some of these rooms aren't even that big and that could be contributing to your problem
Click to expand...

This seems probable, it would mean buying a new amp for me and keeping the current one as I need the extra volume for gigs usually. (occasional no pa support etc etc) If this makes any difference, I have the same problem when using a 2*10 (still with the Mesa on low)

Usually I have the Mesa Master on 2 and the channel volume (channel one) on 6/7. Which isn't *that* loud considering I have to keep up with a heavy drummer and two guitarists (we know what those guys are like right?)

Presumably if I go to a recording studio that has a small live room the amp will do the same thing? Or would it usually have proper (whatever that means) acoustic treatment?

Where do you place the cabinet? In the corner, against a wall, a few feet from a wall, or does it not make a difference where it is?
Click to expand...

Doesn't make any difference.

This kinda thing kills me. I have had the same type of thing happen. The first thing I check is mike stands and bass drum mikes. The bass drum can act as a Hemholtz resonator.

Invalid Link Removed

The biggest offender is when my drummer had a mike stand rigged to his drum "rack" with a gooseneck (you know, the 80's rock drummer thing). When he went conventional drums, problem disappeared. If your stage/platform has subs underneith it, that will cause trouble.
This resonant thing on a few notes is usually contact feedback when the notes "swell" and run away from you.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the info, very interesting read! Unfortunately I don't think that this is the problem, still happens when the drummer is away.

You could try moving the cab away from any walls and possibly raise your E string (which can make it more trebley) or lower your other strings...or get a compressor/limiter. Is it a HE cab or a HLF?
Click to expand...

Using an HE cab, pretty sure the issue has nothing to do with the bass as there seems to be no difference in "boominess" in recordings.

Them furry little critters worse than mice they are, you can set traps for them though with large loose packed bales of rockwool placed in the corners if they are wrapped in plastic you can give your drummer the
job of making as many holes in it as he can with a drum stick, thats to let them little acoustics in. (he will enjoy that).
You see the acoustics go into the traps and when they are ready to come out they find it hard to get out so when they do they are then late for the sequence of all other little acoustics that are running back and forth between the walls so the little ****ers all crash into each other in a heap and stop these waves of little ****ers doing your bass end in.
As your playing in a square box try putting more bales at one end to
make the room less square.
Click to expand...

Can I lure them out of the room with acoustic cheese?
In all seriousness, I will try loading some foam in to make the room less square.

Thanks again for the help guys! Any other suggestions appreciated.
 
#16
Can I lure them out of the room with acoustic cheese?
In all seriousness, I will try loading some foam in to make the room less square.

Thanks again for the help guys! Any other suggestions appreciated.[/QUOTE]
Open cell foam Cheese slices for getting at them acoustics are expensive and don't work any better than ordinary bales of rock-wool unless you do the whole suspended floor anechoic foam wedges all sticking out of the walls ceiling and floor about 1' 6" long.
:ninja:
 
#18
The source of your problem is a combination of room resonant modes and a speaker cab that accentuates the midbass in the same frequencies. The cure is a parametric EQ with adjustable frequency and bandwidth, or 'Q'. Standard shelving and graphic EQs have too wide a bandwidth to kill the boom frequency without killing everything around it as well, and also lack the ability to dial in to the exact offending frequency.
 
#19
Open cell foam Cheese slices for getting at them acoustics are expensive and don't work any better than ordinary bales of rock-wool unless you do the whole suspended floor anechoic foam wedges all sticking out of the walls ceiling and floor about 1' 6" long.
Click to expand...

Rock wool it is, I'll give this a try and let you know what happens, thanks for the info!

The source of your problem is a combination of room resonant modes and a speaker cab that accentuates the midbass in the same frequencies. The cure is a parametric EQ with adjustable frequency and bandwidth, or 'Q'. Standard shelving and graphic EQs have too wide a bandwidth to kill the boom frequency without killing everything around it as well, and also lack the ability to dial in to the exact offending frequency.
Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense. I don't want to spend too much on an EQ, would something like this do?

Invalid Link Removed
 
#20
applerocks said:
Rock wool it is, I'll give this a try and let you know what happens, thanks for the info!



This makes a lot of sense. I don't want to spend too much on an EQ, would something like this do?

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...
It would work very well, not only as a boom buster but also as a global tone control. Parametrics are by far the most useful EQs due to their infinite adjustment capabilities.
 

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