Double Bass Matching Neck Stain for 1951 Kay M-1B

[Keith Rawlings]

I am in the process of doing some amateur luthier work at home on my ‘51 Kay M-1B. I just finished dressing the original rosewood fingerboard with 160 all the way up to 3000 grit sandpaper; then finished it up with 0000 steel wool and walnut oil. Now that I’m done with the fingerboard I’m looking at the neck and the rough patches on the back and trying to figure out what to do to refinish it. I definitely want to keep the original look of it as someday I will restore the entire instrument back to the original blonde color. Painted basses were much cooler in the 90’s - now not so much.

What is the stain that Kay used on the neck and scroll? I know that the lacquer is some sort of a nitro cellulose. Several of the Talkbass threads I’ve dug into say it’s some type of Mohawk product but I’m unsure which one it is. I know I’m going to wet sand it and “raise the grain” on the neck to make the neck as smooth as possible and I’m going to finish it off with some boiled linseed oil. I have no idea what kind of stain to utilize in an attempt to mimic the original color.

Does anyone have any idea what stain color/type these basses had on the necks originally? Thanks.

 

[jsf729]

I don't believe that you can put linseed oil over finish, just the bare wood after using the procedure that you describe

 

[Levin Hannaford]

Neck finish should be a nitrocellulose finish - probably driven by the fact that it dried quickly so these basses could be churned out quicker.

My plan for touching up the neck on my '54 blonde was to grab a piece of maple, some trans tint dye, and some nitro. My intent was to try a few test patches to see what ratio of nitro/dye I would need, but after smoothing out a couple of rough spots, I actually preferred the worn neck.

Good luck on it - it's a fun project to do!

 

[Steven Ayres]

I can confirm that the finish is nitro, NOT a stain. Use dyes to color the nitro, not the wood. I've seen the Mohawk line recommended, haven't got to that level myself.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Scrape and sand the nitro, leaving a transition to the heel and scroll. Then use your oil of choice, rubbing it in with steel wool, a scotchbrite pad or 600 grit paper. It will feel great and blend quickly.

 

[stefaniw80401]

Somewhat related question -- the neck on my new bass has a lovely figure, but the luthier did not put any color on it, so it's understated. I'd like to bring out the tiger stripes and refinish the neck. What 's the process for that??

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Somewhat related question -- the neck on my new bass has a lovely figure, but the luthier did not put any color on it, so it's understated. I'd like to bring out the tiger stripes and refinish the neck. What 's the process for that??

Get it nice and smooth first.
A common dye is the liquid TransTint dye which is sold in 2 oz bottles. I would use dark walnut sparingly mixed in alcohol. Honey Amber is a go to color as well. It can also be mixed with boil linseed oil. Once you get the right color apply a single thin coat of shellac with a cloth and oil away.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Why would you want a finished neck?

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Why would you want a finished neck?

I missed that. FWIW, I recommend one thin coat of shellac only to seal the color, then oil it with a scotchbrite pad to make it feel great. Got to feel that wood.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Why would you want a finished neck?

I just want it smoother and to look nicer. There are lots of bumps and scrapes on the scroll and my ridiculous guitarist put a high gloss lacquer over the back of the neck when I left it at his home one weekend back in 1997. He thought he was doing me a favor with the gloss finish but all it did was rub off after a few months and leave nasty rough spots on the edges. You can see the amber-colored lacquer in the photo if you zoom in. Ideally I want a nice smooth neck that glides like glass when I foray up the fingerboard into thumb position. Now it’s like sliding on sandpaper in multiple spots.

I’m seeing some people using a trans-tint dye/sealer then a boiled linseed oil over the dye. I wonder how that would look on a Kay neck? I know it looks really nice on various replacement necks like the one Hogslapper is using on his AS rebuild.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I’ve since added color to the shim and it looks much better. Time, sweat and oils will do the rest.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Any recommendations on cleaning up the tuners and tuner plates? Chrome polish? Brasso?

 

[stefaniw80401]

Brasso with a toothbrush, then wipe off with cotton rag. You'll still have a nice patina, unless you really use a lot of elbow grease.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Brasso with a toothbrush, then wipe off with cotton rag. You'll still have a nice patina, unless you really use a lot of elbow grease.

Thanks. There’s a little bit of rust and some oxidation on the tuners that I’d like to clean off.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Scrape and sand the nitro, leaving a transition to the heel and scroll. Then use your oil of choice, rubbing it in with steel wool, a scotchbrite pad or 600 grit paper. It will feel great and blend quickly.

I like this idea as it will still look like a Kay. The heel nitro is almost completely rubbed off on the top and the button is missing but I think I can sand a transitional area into the scroll and heel. The button issue will have to wait until a trip to the luthier. I will post pics of the neck work as I go along.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

I’ve since added color to the shim and it looks much better. Time, sweat and oils will do the rest.


View attachment 4220776

The shim looks perfect with the ebony board. Nice work!

 

[stefaniw80401]

Oh-oh -- that [missing] button is your bigger fish to fry right now!

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Oh-oh -- that [missing] button is your bigger fish to fry right now!

It’s going to have to wait. I’m on a budget because of Covid zapping the life out of my industry. The button has been torn up like that during the entire 26 years I’ve owned this Kay and whoever had it previously did the jacked-up wood filler job that’s on it now. It’s stable but will definitely get repaired along with a neck reset, new ebony board, nut, and Aubert bridge.

 

[james condino]

The original color was just clear nitro that has yellowed over the years. You can do a fine job of matching it with a simple can of Zinsser bullseye shellac from home depot plus a few drops of amber color dye like Transtint or Colortone.

To paraphrase Chet Baker: It takes one hell of a refinish person to do a better job than no refinish at all....

Your fingerboard shim will look infinitely better the next time if you use a $20 B grade ebony / rosewood guitar fingerboard blank (rather than maple) so the entire thing has consistent color and visual flow plus there will be no need for finish touch up work....

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

The problem is that the exposed wood is no longer in the white, because it’s contaminated by decades of dirt, sweat and oxidation. Messing with it opens a big can of worms.