McCartney and old time needle jumping (??)

[iamthebassman]

There was one British record I can recall that was notorious for making the needle jump - the end of the Stone's Paint it Black in the bolero section where Bill is zooping octaves. It was cut pretty hot for the time.

I do love playing that tune, with all the swoops.

 

[iamthebassman]

I wonder what Geoff Emerick would add to this discussion. I believe he has a book out about his studio time with The Beatles.

G

We played a party for Geoff right after his book was published, he's a nice guy, I wish we'd had more time to talk, I really wanted to pick his brain! But it was great to meet him, and afterwards he thanked us for including "Paperback Writer" and "A Day in the Life" in the set as they were his fave Beatles tunes.

 

[iamthebassman]

But that doen't explain away the ric.

For whatever reason, by the time of Abbey Road, the bass tone on the vinyl was perfect! I remember first hearing "Golden Slumbers" in High School on my friends big 15 in., all tube, german made something. The Low "G" on the second verse was the most beautiful thing I ever heard. I also remember my shock when, just a couple of years ago, learning that it was George on a J!!

I think George was on many "J"s over the years.

 

[Toronto Bassist]

This is all made stranger by the fact that McCartney plays plenty of low E's on "All My Loving", including the last note.

 

[mccartneyman]

He does play on the E string -- just not much. That's why I think it's a conscious choice because he was happy with what he heard in the range he chose to play in. As someone else pointed out, he could have played the initial line in "Daytripper" an octave lower, but didn't. He could have played "Rain" an octave lower, but didn't. Same thing with "Nowhere Man." I don't think any of the Beatles songs would have sounded better if he'd dropped down an octave when he could have. There's something about the sound of the E played at teh 7th fret of the A string that 's killer. Listen to Eddie Floyd's "Knock on Wood" and imagine if playing that line an octave down would have helped the song.

 

[endorka]

Avoiding notes on the "E" string was commonplace back then amongst bass players and arrangers. It was known (either implicitly or explicitly) that the fundamental frequency of notes that low would never be heard on commonplace playback equipment, so to give the bass presence notes on the E string were usually avoided - c.f. "Son of a Preacher Man" by Dusty Springfield, and other recordings of that era.

One exception to the rule: if the bassline is also being played by another instrument an octave higher, the E string could be used.

Jennifer

 

[So Low Bass]

Good stuff Endorka... thanks. The one Beatle example that stands out against the rule is "For No One", but it's a very quiet type of piece, where the bass really can stand out.

 

[GaryLC]

He does play on the E string -- just not much. That's why I think it's a conscious choice because he was happy with what he heard in the range he chose to play in. As someone else pointed out, he could have played the initial line in "Daytripper" an octave lower, but didn't. He could have played "Rain" an octave lower, but didn't. Same thing with "Nowhere Man." I don't think any of the Beatles songs would have sounded better if he'd dropped down an octave when he could have. There's something about the sound of the E played at teh 7th fret of the A string that 's killer. Listen to Eddie Floyd's "Knock on Wood" and imagine if playing that line an octave down would have helped the song.

I enjoyed reading this, it makes me feel okay about never wanting to play a five string...

 

[mccartneyman]

I enjoyed reading this, it makes me feel okay about never wanting to play a five string...

Unlike drummers, who feel obligated to hit every drum and cymbal at least once during every song, bassists show restraint and sometimes do NOT use all their strings. Thus will it ever be.

 

[Toronto Bassist]

He could have played "Rain" an octave lower, but didn't.

Not to nitpick, but McCartney does indeed play the bassline an octave lower in either the second or third verse.

 

[Rob Martinez]

The technological argument gives food for thought.

Still, I always assumed it was a stylistic thing for McCartney, a way to be heard better.

I used to subscribe to the notion of playin primarily around the first three frets, but in the last three years I have moved up in order to be heard better, especially since I play in a 50s band at lower volumes.

IMO, McCartney played that way on purpose. Now, if you listen to WINGS OVER AMERICA, he plays more low end, but still reaches up at times.

Great discussion!

 

[mccartneyman]

The catalog of McCartney's playing, I think, supports that he plays what he thinks fits the song, no matter where it lies on the neck. Early on, there may have been some truth to the "Hofner out of tune" theory, but after the Rickenbacker arrived, there was no reason to avoid low. As someone pointed out, he does play the low G in "Rain," but the bulk of the line is up two octaves above it. But in "Silly Love Songs," at the time of "Wings Over America," the bulk of that line is "first five frets," as is "Band on the Run" for that matter.

I like the style of bass playing that was popular in the mid- to late '60s. Lots of high playing -- "Judy in Disguise," "Rain," ""Everything that Touches You" by the Association, parts of "Good Vibrations," "Aquarius/Let the Sun Shine In." And plenty of Motown and Stax/Volt, too. Good time for bass.

 

[CamiloDíaz]

As a kid, I always thought that the sole reason for him putting the bass up almost to his chest was, precisely, to better reach the higher notes, ergo, he chose to play them and then he placed the bass accordingly. I'm inclined to think it is an stylistic thing rather than a technology issue.

And I always tune my A 440, play Abbey Road a few times a month along with the record and the only song that have some pitchy notes is Here Comes The Sun.

I was in a band that played some hard rock stoner originals, and we always tuned to the keyboard. And before that, when there was no keyboard player, we tuned to... my bass. So we recorded the one album we did in the same manner. We chose not to use tuners as we never did, so the live versions following the recording were somewhat "accurate", if that makes any sense. I sang harmonies in that band, and I recall feeling some live renditions way lower in pitch than others. It seems, from pure subjective experience, that if you consistently tune to each other, the overall pitch tends to be lower over time... YMMV and all of that.

 

[So Low Bass]

I like the style of bass playing that was popular in the mid- to late '60s. Lots of high playing -- "Judy in Disguise," "Rain," ""Everything that Touches You" by the Association, parts of "Good Vibrations," "Aquarius/Let the Sun Shine In." And plenty of Motown and Stax/Volt, too. Good time for bass.

Totally agree. The fact remains that the limitations of 60's vinyl disc cutting- especially British- COULD have made playing lower notes chancey to the Master Engineers of the day. As disc cutting became a non issue with the advent of digital, McCartney's used the lower notes more during his Non Beatle phase.

Ponder this: would some of today's "B" string stuff jump a needle using the 1960's EMI technology?

 

[GaryLC]

And I always tune my A 440, play Abbey Road a few times a month along with the record and the only song that have some pitchy notes is Here Comes The Sun.

....and "The End". When the piano comes in after the triple guitar solos, the key has "modulated" some.....I would guess due to a different recording time, and tape speed being slightly off.

 

[mccartneyman]

Totally agree. The fact remains that the limitations of 60's vinyl disc cutting- especially British- COULD have made playing lower notes chancey to the Master Engineers of the day. As disc cutting became a non issue with the advent of digital, McCartney's used the lower notes more during his Non Beatle phase.

Ponder this: would some of today's "B" string stuff jump a needle using the 1960's EMI technology?

I know what a B string does to a 1970s Fender Bassman 10, and it ain't pretty.

 

[mccartneyman]

As a kid, I always thought that the sole reason for him putting the bass up almost to his chest was, precisely, to better reach the higher notes ...

You think Paul plays with the bass high? Check out George's Gretsch position and Gerry Marsden's position in Gerry & The Pacemakers -- it could've been a necktie.

 

[So Low Bass]

....and "The End". When the piano comes in after the triple guitar solos, the key has "modulated" some.....I would guess due to a different recording time, and tape speed being slightly off.

THAT's the problem... it doesn't modulate at all. In our system of Western Music, a key change only happens in a half step (a fret) or a combination of full half steps. Certainly singers, guitarists, saxes, etc. can bend notes within that frame, but the frame HAS to be related to the previous key by half steps. In "The end", the piano comes it, it's an 1/8th step or so sharp. The only possible excuse for this is related to rushing/sloppy/deadline...whatever. It possible when this was added, none of the Beatles were even in the country!

If you have any ears at all, it's impossible to tune your bass once and then sit down and play through Abbey Road and be in tune. It is impossible!!

 

[mccartneyman]

THAT's the problem... it doesn't modulate at all. In our system of Western Music, a key change only happens in a half step (a fret) or a combination of full half steps. Certainly singers, guitarists, saxes, etc. can bend notes within that frame, but the frame HAS to be related to the previous key by half steps. In "The end", the piano comes it, it's an 1/8th step or so sharp. The only possible excuse for this is related to rushing/sloppy/deadline...whatever. It possible when this was added, none of the Beatles were even in the country!

If you have any ears at all, it's impossible to tune your bass once and then sit down and play through Abbey Road and be in tune. It is impossible!!

That may be true, but it doesn't seem to bother Paul's band when they do Sgt. Pepper/The End in concert. I can forgive "sloppiness" in the studio if this is all that's wrong. Better this than having Autotune.

 

[So Low Bass]

That may be true, but it doesn't seem to bother Paul's band when they do Sgt. Pepper/The End in concert.

Yeh.... with Hamish Stuart's 5 string Musicman!!