McCartney's thoughts about Carol Kaye?

[dougjwray]

Paul has always cited Jamerson and Brian Wilson as his two bass influences. I think he means for their composition more than for their execution. I remember reading that Wilson's inversions particularly inspired him.
He's always said that he's more or less in awe of "Pet Sounds." As far as I know, every bass note on that album was written by Wilson, yet played by Carol Kaye. But I've never seen McCartney say a thing about her. Have I missed something? Am I right that she didn't compose any of those parts?
Also, I have a feeling that his use of a pick really started around the time of "Pet Sounds." Maybe he *was* influenced by Kaye's playing, in that way?

 

[Michedelic]

Paul has always cited Jamerson and Brian Wilson as his two bass influences. I think he means for their composition more than for their execution. I remember reading that Wilson's inversions particularly inspired him.
He's always said that he's more or less in awe of "Pet Sounds." As far as I know, every bass note on that album was written by Wilson, yet played by Carol Kaye. But I've never seen McCartney say a thing about her. Have I missed something? Am I right that she didn't compose any of those parts?
Also, I have a feeling that his use of a pick really started around the time of "Pet Sounds." Maybe he *was* influenced by Kaye's playing, in that way?

Yes, he spoke of discovering her via Beach Boys recordings…
Invalid Link Removed

 

[digmeout]

Pet sounds was released in 1966, Paul was using a pick way before then. I agree that "he means for their composition more than for their execution". IMHO he probably thinks any competent player could play the notes, but not write them. He's probably aware of who played bass on the sessions, it just doesn't mean as much to him as the writing/composition does.

 

[Ggaa]

I think Paul and Carol used picks because they played guitar before making the switch to bass.

 

[JohnFrancis]

Paul has always cited Jamerson and Brian Wilson as his two bass influences. I think he means for their composition more than for their execution. I remember reading that Wilson's inversions particularly inspired him.
He's always said that he's more or less in awe of "Pet Sounds." As far as I know, every bass note on that album was written by Wilson, yet played by Carol Kaye. But I've never seen McCartney say a thing about her. Have I missed something? Am I right that she didn't compose any of those parts?
Also, I have a feeling that his use of a pick really started around the time of "Pet Sounds." Maybe he *was* influenced by Kaye's playing, in that way?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't James Jamerson considered as a player more than a composer? He did not get any composer credits on any Motown records.

 

[dougjwray]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't James Jamerson considered as a player more than a composer? He did not get any composer credits on any Motown records.

After a while, Jamerson started to ignore the written parts that the Motown arrangers gave him, and use his own ideas. So... no, he didn't get composer credits for the songs, but he did effectively write his own parts.

 

[dougjwray]

Pet sounds was released in 1966, Paul was using a pick way before then. I agree that "he means for their composition more than for their execution". IMHO he probably thinks any competent player could play the notes, but not write them. He's probably aware of who played bass on the sessions, it just doesn't mean as much to him as the writing/composition does.

One detail: I think remember him saying that he was very aware of the bass playing on the Motown releases, but had no idea of the person's name. Indeed, none of the players were credited until research was done, years later.

 

[dougjwray]

I think Paul and Carol used picks because they played guitar before making the switch to bass.

True, but you hear only Paul's fingers or thumb on roughly the first half of the Beatles' music.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

I remember reading somewhere that during the first American tour Paul had to send Mal out on an emergency errand because he lost his "plectrum".
Can you imagine going on tour with just one pick?
But it does speak to his reliance on pick playing, even in those early years.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Probably something like “you know I think shes great you know. Lots of cool bass lines in them days you know”

 

[MCS4]

True, but you hear only Paul's fingers or thumb on roughly the first half of the Beatles' music.

I'm no Beatles expert and don't know if you are intentionally making a distinction between live versus the studio, but the early-ish live footage I have seen sure tends to look to me as though he is playing with a pick. The Ed Sullivan show in early 1964 for example.

 

[Ritter667]

I am pretty sure Paul McCartney himself juts sees his bass as a composition tool, and himself more as a songwriter that happens to play bass, rather than a bass player that happens to write songs.

At least that is is impression I got of him.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I'm no Beatles expert and don't know if you are intentionally making a distinction between live versus the studio, but the early-ish live footage I have seen sure tends to look to me as though he is playing with a pick. The Ed Sullivan show in early 1964 for example.

Yeah I’m no scholar either but I thought he always played bass with a pick

 

[Jeff Hughes]

I think ballads and some slower songs and what not he would play with his index finger with thumb anchored on the neck. He did this in "Till There was you" live and in the "I am the Walrus" segment from MMT.

 

[Fuzzbass]

After a while, Jamerson started to ignore the written parts that the Motown arrangers gave him, and use his own ideas. So... no, he didn't get composer credits for the songs, but he did effectively write his own parts.

There's debate about whether session musicians should receive songwriting credit if they write a particularly creative and memorable part. In general, it's rare. Apparently Anthony Jackson was given a piece of "For the Love of Money", so I thought it was a travesty that Herbie Flowers wasn't given the same consideration for "Walk on the Wild Side". But Herbie himself said that he didn't expect or deserve such compensation: he was a session player fulfilling a contract, end of story.



Carol Kaye was certainly creative: the intro bass riff to "Wichita Lineman" was her idea completely, and would not be the only example. But in general she followed the written parts more closely than Jamerson did. Nothing wrong with that at all, deepest respect for her amazing execution, but it's why Jamerson receives more credit for reinventing the role of bass guitar.

 

[bassman10096]

I’ve been watching Paul on video since ‘64 and can count on one hand the number of times I saw him playing finger style. It has always been my understanding that Brian W was the exception rather than the rule in how specifically he composed bass lines compared to other songwriters and producers.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

There's debate about whether session musicians should receive songwriting credit if they write a particularly creative and memorable part. In general, it's rare. Apparently Anthony Jackson was given a piece of "For the Love of Money", so I thought it was a travesty that Herbie Flowers wasn't given the same consideration for "Walk on the Wild Side". But Herbie himself said that he didn't expect or deserve such compensation: he was a session player fulfilling a contract, end of story.

That's why nAndy Summers and Stewart Copeland are suing Sting for Every Breath You Take!

 

[Wood and Wire]

Paul has always cited Jamerson and Brian Wilson as his two bass influences. I think he means for their composition more than for their execution. I remember reading that Wilson's inversions particularly inspired him.
He's always said that he's more or less in awe of "Pet Sounds." As far as I know, every bass note on that album was written by Wilson, yet played by Carol Kaye. But I've never seen McCartney say a thing about her. Have I missed something? Am I right that she didn't compose any of those parts?
Also, I have a feeling that his use of a pick really started around the time of "Pet Sounds." Maybe he *was* influenced by Kaye's playing, in that way?

"Carol Kaye? Yeah, she was a no playin' mutha f*©|<€r!"

- Paul McCartney

 

[dougjwray]

Carol also wrote the "The Beat Goes On" (Sonny & Cher) riff, which kind of *is* the song.
A friend of mine who's way more knowledgeable about the business of music than I am says that things seem to be evolving toward players getting some royalties, where it makes sense.
A couple more examples from the old days are the "Layla" riff, contributed by Duane Allman (borrowed from the melody of Albert King's "As the Years Go Passing By"), and the 5/4 intro to "White Room", contributed by Ginger Baker. Since these were likely considered arrangement details, neither person got a dime.

 

[dougjwray]

"Carol Kaye? Yeah, she was a no playin' mutha f*©|<€r!"

- Paul McCartney

"Paul only says that because I actually played all of the bass parts on the Beatles' records."--Carol