Also, fingers/thumb on the promo clips for "I Feel Fine", "Ticket to Ride" and "We Can Work it Out."
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McCartney's thoughts about Carol Kaye?
- Thread starter dougjwray
- Start date
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I think you are getting McCartney and Kaye confused with Miles and Steve Miller!
His style of playing is unofficially credited with inventing the entire genre.
McCartney cited “Motown” as a bass influence long before he even knew his name.
The Beatles heard PET SOUNDS and were very challenged by it, eventually answering with SGT PEPPER'S.
As a session player, I'm sure some of Carol's parts were totally written out, but as her rep and credits soared, I'm sure a lot of the leaders and producers would have given her broad latitude to embellish or build her own lines, like the little fall-in that begins WICHITA LINEMAN, the various parts she worked with Brian Wilson, the long outro to LET THE SUN SHINE, and more. It was her idea to double the melody under the chorus of GOOD VIBRATIONS, which was actually assembled from three sessions.
As a session player, I'm sure some of Carol's parts were totally written out, but as her rep and credits soared, I'm sure a lot of the leaders and producers would have given her broad latitude to embellish or build her own lines, like the little fall-in that begins WICHITA LINEMAN, the various parts she worked with Brian Wilson, the long outro to LET THE SUN SHINE, and more. It was her idea to double the melody under the chorus of GOOD VIBRATIONS, which was actually assembled from three sessions.
Much more likely that he regards himself as a songwriter and musician who happens to play multiple instruments, although he started out on guitar and piano before adding bass, drums, ukulele, and any number of other music-making devices.
I think you have to give Carol credit for creation of many of the lead-ins and hooks in the music the contributed to, regardless of who wrote the chord charts and the rhythm lines. She has a great ear for determining where colorful, tasty little riffs should go in a line. Regarding playing with a pick, yes both Paul and Carol were guitar players before they were bass players, but many people used a pick on bass back then, before active EQs and better p'ups came along, just to be heard in the mix.
When I saw the Beatles play live at Civic Arena in Pittsburgh in '64 Paul played the Hoffner with a pick. Still couldn't hear him, from 100 feet away, over the racket produced by thousands of screaming, hysterical young girls.
When I saw the Beatles play live at Civic Arena in Pittsburgh in '64 Paul played the Hoffner with a pick. Still couldn't hear him, from 100 feet away, over the racket produced by thousands of screaming, hysterical young girls.
I agree, except for one correction: Joe Osborn played on "Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In."
I assume you're talking about the 5th Dimension version.
He does happen to play bass though, which was the topic/assumption of the OP.
My point was that I think he regards himself more of a songwriter than instrumentalist, and the instruments just tools to facilitate the songwriting.
He probably also consider himself several other things, and as a human being before all that, but that is kind of off topic.
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I'm guessing more people spend time thinking about how Paul regards himself than Paul spends time thinking about how he regards himself.
Well, that's one the questionable perks of being famous, isn't it?I'm guessing more people spend time thinking about how Paul regards himself than Paul spends time thinking about how he regards himself.
I suppose though perhaps more so him than the average celebrity.
I can tell you a story that involves Paul, about how normal and how humble he is. Many years ago he performed on SNL. My sister was back stage, because she is friends with Jean Demanian, the co-producer at the time, and another friend was music director of the show. The former "senator" who played Stuart Smalley was performing his skit and my sister and Paul were watching. She was talking with Paul about his family, and he was relieved not to be interrogated and to just have a normal conversation. She said he was just normal, understated, very friendly and unassuming. Then Paul went out and performed, and "Stuart Smalley" stood back stage with my sister. When Paul was done my sister said she turned to "Stuart Smalley" and said "wasn't that fantastic?" "Smalley" replied, "yes, I think that was my best Stuart Smalley ever!"
This brings up a scandal, and why i don’t much care for Carol Kaye: she made a habit of taking credit (verbally, not financially) for a number of basslines and songs that she could not have and did not play on.
A notable example is her claim to having played the bassline to What’s Going On, despite Motown still being in Detroit, having not moved to LA yet.
So she claims she played on Aquarius/Let The Sun Shine, even though all records clearly show that Joe Osborn was on that session.
It rubs me the wrong way, and for that, i’m with Paul McCartney: Brian Wilson wrote amazing basslines.
A notable example is her claim to having played the bassline to What’s Going On, despite Motown still being in Detroit, having not moved to LA yet.
So she claims she played on Aquarius/Let The Sun Shine, even though all records clearly show that Joe Osborn was on that session.
It rubs me the wrong way, and for that, i’m with Paul McCartney: Brian Wilson wrote amazing basslines.
I dont think Carol really cares. She never did anything to become famous. She played bass for the love of music and to provide for her family. She Tok care of her mother and her children by herself. People who care show up at award ceremonies and love to be put up on a pedestal. People who dont tell the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to kick rocks.
No, sorry. It was from me. My big fingers, combined with a small phone touch screen messed it up
Sorry!
Great story, but I'm willing to give Al Franken the benefit of the doubt here-- it sounds to me like his sense of humor.
But yes, I've heard very good things about Paul. A friend of mine was once eating at a restaurant in the Hamptons (a very wealthy area on Long Island, in New York). Through the window she saw a Bentley pull up. Paul and his family got out and came into the restaurant... but Paul left his car lights on. My friend got up the nerve to go over to his table to tell him, and she said that he was very thankful, friendly and humble.
For the most part, at the time, most people including Paul didn't know who played on Motown or Beach Boys records. It was only much later when the players got recognized that people knew.
Here's a quote from Paul about Motown records:
"We didn’t know who the players were — they didn’t get credited then. But whoever was playing bass on those Motown records, we just thought, ‘Bloody hell, that’s great!’”
Here's one about Pet Sounds:
"“The other thing that really made me sit up and take notice was the bass lines on Pet Sounds. If you were in the key of C, you would normally … the root note would be, like, a C on the bass. … You just get a completely different effect if you play a G when the band is playing in C. There’s a kind of tension created.”"
Here's a quote from Paul about Motown records:
"We didn’t know who the players were — they didn’t get credited then. But whoever was playing bass on those Motown records, we just thought, ‘Bloody hell, that’s great!’”
Here's one about Pet Sounds:
"“The other thing that really made me sit up and take notice was the bass lines on Pet Sounds. If you were in the key of C, you would normally … the root note would be, like, a C on the bass. … You just get a completely different effect if you play a G when the band is playing in C. There’s a kind of tension created.”"
I have studied with Carol, and I was friends with the late and dearly missed Motown engineer Ed Wolfram (he engineered What's Going On and was a very close friene of Jamo and Jamo Jr) I can tell you that Motown was cutting in LA and Detroit and there is no paper trail as to what went to press...you have to let your ear be your guide,. So Carol isn't lying or guilty of "stolen valor" she absolutely cut sessions for Motown whether or not they are the versions we hear on the radio is what people want to argue over...which is not worth arguing over.
