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Mediocre bassists locking in with masterful drummer

#41
It's one of life's great luxuries to play with a really good drummer.

One thing that was always helpful to me: IF we were on a suitable stage, I'd setup to his right, that way I could look in and watch the kick pedal, high hat, and his hands. Ideally, I was between the drums and the rest of the instruments and vocals. Keep your eyes and ears open, feel the spots he's leaving for you join him, and keep digging.

Value this opportunity: Sometimes, a very good drummer will run out of patience quick with a bassist that's still a little wet behind the ears. You're not there, so absorb everything you can.
 
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#42
So many snowflakes, it's kind of white.. bright white.. It's hard to tell someone directly that s/he sucks. That's why you have these polite phrases, like 'you must lock with me better, dude'. For a bass player, hearing this, it's like, as if your gf asked you politely 'are you finished yet, darling?', and then yawn. But it's not a disability, unless you are literally locking up with your drummer when no one sees you. It can be cured by practice. It always boils down to the lack of practice in this business. Always. It's not ok to not have a good timing. It's almost tragic. It's why you are there as a bass player in the first place. It's a rhythm section after all, it's in the definition of what you are supposed to do. Being decent at something takes many hours of _directional_ practice. Which in your case means don't screw around without a metronome. It has to be your new best buddy. Just like the gf in that hypothetical example, your drummer will likely run away from you sooner or later. Enjoy while it lasts and don't take it personally when it finally happens. Take it as a lesson and as a stimulus to improve. It's always better to play with cats who are orders of magnitude above your level. You can learn a lot.
 
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#43
I had a lightbulb moment when a sound guy complimented me for leaving room for the snare. Boom mind blown. It's not a hard and fast rule, but something we should be paying attention to. Then when you let the note ring out, it change the whole feel of the groove.
I prefer playing with the kick almost always, unless it's a distinctive bass line that has to be there for listeners to recognize the song.
OP, you are in the fortunate circumstance where the drummer listens to you and is willing to work with you. It's a great learning experience for you to learn and form a bond with a quality musician. Out of curiosity, what kind of music are you playing? Much of my experience is in church band world where there are good and bad drummers and sound engineers week to week.
 
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#44
There are a thousand ways to look at this age-old problem. Try this:

You are playing paint-by-numbers with the drummer. He's providing the black and white canvas and outlining the picture. All you have to do is paint over what he's put down. You provide dimension and interest to what he's doing. As good as your guy is, without you he's just hitting round things with sticks. It's your opportunity (!) to help turn it into music. I had a good drummer once who liked that I "played the song." Play the song with your drummer.

"Timekeeping is everyone's responsibility" is a counterproductive, oversimplifying copout. Always has been. Everyone has a different job to do.
 
#45
dexter3d said:
So many snowflakes, it's kind of white.. bright white.. It's hard to tell someone directly that s/he sucks. That's why you have these polite phrases, like 'you must lock with me better, dude'. For a bass player, hearing this, it's like, as if your gf asked you politely 'are you finished yet, darling?', and then yawn. But it's not a disability, unless you are literally locking up with your drummer when no one sees you. It can be cured by practice. It always boils down to the lack of practice in this business. Always. It's not ok to not have a good timing. It's almost tragic. It's why you are there as a bass player in the first place. It's a rhythm section after all, it's in the definition of what you are supposed to do. Being decent at something takes many hours of _directional_ practice. Which in your case means don't screw around without a metronome. It has to be your new best buddy. Just like the gf in that hypothetical example, your drummer will likely run away from you sooner or later. Enjoy while it lasts and don't take it personally when it finally happens. Take it as a lesson and as a stimulus to improve. It's always better to play with cats who are orders of magnitude above your level. You can learn a lot.
Click to expand...
In the words of the dude: you're not wrong Walter you're just an ahole.
 
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#46
When I was kid (12-16) we believed that a band need a either a really good bass player and an average drummer or an average bass player and a really good drummer. If both were really good there would be too much conflict. Of course we also believed Bass amps should be SS ( with the exception of Portaflexes) and guitar amps tube.
 
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#47
Once you become comfortable and proficient at locking in with the kick, the next thing to work on is paying attention to what your drummer is doing with the hi-hat. Most experienced drummers will signal tempo changes and other things using the hi-hat. So it's generally a good idea to position yourself on stage so you can feel the kick and have a clear view of the hi-hat at all times.

Eventually you'll learn each other's style and little quirks well enough that you won't need as many visual cues because you'll both already have a good idea what the other guy is going to do. And believe me, there isn't much in music more rewarding than being so completely on the same page with the other members in your band that you never have to worry about anything. Because you all know you can completely trust each other to do their respective jobs. Once that happens there's no limit to how high your band can raise the bar.

But you gotta start somewhere. And bass and drums is the best place to begin. Like the U2 song lyric says: "Two hearts beat as one."

Kidding aside, that's the goal. Bass and drums as a single thing.
 
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#48
Congrats on finding a great drummer, broke. It's not an easy thing to do. Remember that when you sound better, the whole band sounds better, so in helping you he is also helping himself and everyone else. Yes, best advice is to try and set up a session for just you and the drummer to work on things once in a while so when the whole band is together it's a more productive practice. If you put the time in and come prepared to practices your bandmates will appreciate that you are not wasting their time and hard work and preparation are the best substitute for talent and experience until you get to where you want to be. There's a lot of things that I wish I had known much earlier but you really don't know what you don't know.
 
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#52
IamGroot said:
Music Life is not pretty. Sometimes your best friend is the one who gives you a kick in the butt instead of a hug. Snowflake comment aside, what he said was dead on true. Ugly, but true.
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Yeah, but in this world, it ok to not be an ass***e. There's way too many as it is. We just don't need anymore as far as I can tell, and you don't get extra points for it.. But as was mentioned, that doesn't make him wrong...
 
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#53
dexter3d said:
So many snowflakes, it's kind of white.. bright white.. It's hard to tell someone directly that s/he sucks. That's why you have these polite phrases, like 'you must lock with me better, dude'. For a bass player, hearing this, it's like, as if your gf asked you politely 'are you finished yet, darling?', and then yawn. But it's not a disability, unless you are literally locking up with your drummer when no one sees you. It can be cured by practice. It always boils down to the lack of practice in this business. Always. It's not ok to not have a good timing. It's almost tragic. It's why you are there as a bass player in the first place. It's a rhythm section after all, it's in the definition of what you are supposed to do. Being decent at something takes many hours of _directional_ practice. Which in your case means don't screw around without a metronome. It has to be your new best buddy. Just like the gf in that hypothetical example, your drummer will likely run away from you sooner or later. Enjoy while it lasts and don't take it personally when it finally happens. Take it as a lesson and as a stimulus to improve. It's always better to play with cats who are orders of magnitude above your level. You can learn a lot.
Click to expand...

No woman ever says that to me.
 
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#55
The tighter you and the drummer play together, the better. My focus is like this:

1. The kick drum. This is the heart beat of the music. If it helps, put your foot against the peg of the bass drum so you can feel it. If you are locked with the kick, you can't go wrong. I've played gigs where the stage sound was so bad, I couldn't hear anything clearly, so I kept my foot there to "feel" my way through the gig.
2. The snare drum.
3. Hi hat/ride cymbal.
4. Other drums.
 
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#56
IamGroot said:
Music Life is not pretty. Sometimes your best friend is the one who gives you a kick in the butt instead of a hug. Snowflake comment aside, what he said was dead on true. Ugly, but true.
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Im having trouble discerning if you are backing me up or saying I'm wrong.

I agree with what he said, he's just being a deck about it (his choice of words).

I agree with your statement because in essence it is very similar to mine save the kick in the butt thing. If a random person, whose musical skill was not apparent, in a face to face convo "kicked me in the butt" I would kick back.

See the OP has it right. His drummer, who he respects, told him to work on some stuff and now he's motivated to do so. I have been harshly "motivated" by a few people in my life. If you ask me about it now I'd say that they could have said it better but I respected their skill and thus took my critique back to the shed and came back stronger.
 
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#57
Spin Doctor said:
Yeah, but in this world, it ok to not be an ass***e. There's way too many as it is. We just don't need anymore as far as I can tell, and you don't get extra points for it.. But as was mentioned, that doesn't make him wrong...
Click to expand...

He wasn't being an ahole, he was dead on right. Except for the first sentence, he said exactly what I would of said.

If saying whats true is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
 
#59
eJake said:
Im having trouble discerning if you are backing me up or saying I'm wrong.

I agree with what he said, he's just being a deck about it (his choice of words).

I agree with your statement because in essence it is very similar to mine save the kick in the butt thing. If a random person, whose musical skill was not apparent, in a face to face convo "kicked me in the butt" I would kick back.

See the OP has it right. His drummer, who he respects, told him to work on some stuff and now he's motivated to do so. I have been harshly "motivated" by a few people in my life. If you ask me about it now I'd say that they could have said it better but I respected their skill and thus took my critique back to the shed and came back stronger.
Click to expand...

It's ok I haven't been upset at any point in this thread. And I'll be playing in New Orleans in a few weeks. Maybe come check me out in person and offer tips.
 
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#60
Ignore all of the negative banter in this thread. The drummer wouldn't still be around if you weren't in the neighborhood.

Work with this guy as much as he'll let you and soak in the tips he brings. As far a group playing dynamics go, you won't find a better mentor than a good drummer to help you do your job as best as possible.

I've been fortunate to work with three great drummer in my almost three years on bass. They all helped me a great deal. In my current project the drummer came on board and my sound improved 100% just because he knew how to lock in on me on the originals we had already worked out and did so immediately. I try to return the favor and am actually recently really focused on connecting with more of his groove than I have been. We're getting pretty tight and get lots of rhythm section love from our other members.

Now you that you know what to do, you will improve in leaps and bounds for a while. Good job to recognize a lesson when it is given and to not take his comments as insults.
 
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