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Melodic minor pentatonic

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by ba55i5t, May 3, 2017.


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  1. Bob_Ross

    Bob_Ross Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    There is so much wrong with that article I don't know where to begin

    ...well, wait, I'll begin near the beginning: In the second paragraph the author states "Today’s jazz theory is rooted in chord/scale unity from George Russell’s Lydian Chromatic Concept."

    No it isn't! Completely and patently untrue. It's specifically the departure from the way jazz theory was -- and still is -- taught that makes Russell's chord/scale unity such a foreign idea...so foreign in fact that the author never once uses any of the vocabulary that Russell developed for his theory, with the exception of that one word "unity"

    The author is correct when he states "The status quo of jazz education applies chord/scale theory to all jazz repertoire" ...it's just not George Russell's chord/scale theory that's being applied! FWIW: Berklee College of Music, Manhattan School of Music, Mills College, Julliard, Wesleyan, North Texas State (or whatever they call themselves now), none of those learning institutions teach jazz theory as per George Russell's Concept. The New England Conservatory only offers it as an adjunct in their Jazz Studies Department; you are required to take at least one semester of Traditional Jazz Harmony in order to balance the (comparatively radical) ideas of Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept.
     
    Whousedtoplay and Groove Master like this.
  2. mambo4

    mambo4

    Jun 9, 2006
    Dallas
    My criticism of the Lydian Chromatic concept is that I dislike the result



    Give me cats riffing on show-tunes and pop songs any day.
     
    Groove Master likes this.
  3. Groove Master

    Groove Master

    Apr 22, 2011
    Montreal
    Author of Groove 101, Slap 101 and Technique 101
    And the guy that wrote that Lydian concept is still composing and playing the blues ;-)
     
  4. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Thanks for the YouTube link.
    As an amateur pop musician, I enjoyed it immensely.
    I will take it over any "bubble-gum soda Music.
     
  5. Bob_Ross

    Bob_Ross Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    Actually, he died ~8 years ago.
     
  6. Groove Master

    Groove Master

    Apr 22, 2011
    Montreal
    Author of Groove 101, Slap 101 and Technique 101
    I was referring to the album that was posted above. There's still blues composing in there. Sorry if I offended someone with that, I didn't know he passed away.
     
  7. ba55i5t

    ba55i5t

    May 24, 2006
    To bring this back full circle, two of the parent scales he mentions are lydian augmented and lydian dominant. Both are modes of the melodic minor scale, so how can they both be parent scales?
     
    Whousedtoplay likes this.
  8. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    I had some free time this weekend and decided to transcribe some of my "noodling" inspired by AngelCrusher (Thanks AngelCrusher), along Fima Ephron's simple chord progression - (4/4) Cm7 | Fm7/Bb7 | Cm7 |(2/4) Ab7/G7|
    In my opinion, it's a C natural minor; therefore, I could immediately make it as the Eb major pentatonic scale - Eb,F,G Bb,C.
    For "soloing" needs on my Jazz Bass, as an amateur bassist who has never improvised, I've decided to stay within the 12th and 20th frets of my bass, with just one-Bar exception.
    Fretboard1.PNG

    I've heard, "Don't start your solo on the root note"; therefore, I made it as D (for Cm7).
    I did not want to post my long noodling. I've just transcribed some of my phrasing from that "noodling" but even that is a long transcription.
    Here are a few simple phrases along that chord progression.
    First, I needed to create some kind of "tune" on that "naked" chord progression.
    I don't have a lot of technique; therefore, I pay more attention to the rhythmic interpretation with all those slides, bends, ghost/muted notes, etc...
    Due to some "ugly" rhythmic transcription of my "soloing feel/sense", I've used a highlighter to separate the beats if there are any questions.
    AngelCrusherEx-1.PNG AngelCrusherEx-2.PNG AngelCrusherEx-3.PNG
    AngelCrusherEx-4.PNG
    Here I start adding a little bit more notes, but always my notes have that "sense" of bend, bend&release, vibrato, etc...
    AngelCrusherEx-5.PNG
    AngelCrusherEx-6.PNG
    And a little bit more notes but around the same frets with a lot of slides (I like it), plus some "purposely" introduced chromatic "annoying/slightly-off" non-scale notes.
    AngelCrusherEx-7.PNG AngelCrusherEx-8.PNG
    I always love using Open strings, especially when those open string notes match my chord needs - G and D for Cm7, Fm7, etc... AngelCrusherEx-9.PNG AngelCrusherEx-10.PNG
    Here is a sound clip of that AngelCrusherEx from Guitar Pro.
    https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...6/?temp_hash=82b0b39e43a901e630cea24d23287add
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  9. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    I have only very superficial knowledge of George Russell's theory.

    George Russell's concept is this.
    It's not a Major scale but the Lydian scale/mode that is in closest unity with the chord.
    GR-LC-1.PNG


    The Lydian Chromatic(!) concept - it's a course and not a short comment at TB.
    The LC concept helps a musician to build a scale that is best suited for this or that chord - a concept of vertical polymodality.
    In short, it's a concept how to convert a/any chord you see on the sheet into a scale that truly represents the qualities of that chord.
    The easiest thing is to use help.

    George Russel has provided us with his "Conversion Table".
    Let's say, Cm7 - C Eb G Bb - has a parent scale Eb Lydian.
    Here is why.
    GR-LC-2.PNG
    It's in the column VI which means that the Tonic/Root of Cm7 - C - is the 6th of your parent scale - Eb Lydian.

    What if you have the Cm(maj7) chord - C Eb G B?
    With the help from that "Table", we get our parent scale -
    Eb Lydian Augmented Scale Eb,F,G,A,B,C,D
    GR-LC-3.PNG
     
  10. AngelCrusher

    AngelCrusher Supporting Member

    Sep 12, 2004
    Mesa Boogie, Tech 21, Taylor
    It's funny I do this exact stuff in solos sometimes and never thought much about it besides knowing it was a lydian.

    Pretty insane to see a song named after me..lol. Why don't you play the bass parts? Do you program them for analysis? I think it would make more sense if you played them personally. The programmed bass sounds kind of weird compared to if you were playing it.
     
  11. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Here is George Russell's table.
    Please note, it's the "Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization", which means that
    All those seven Principal Lydian scales have derived from the Lydian Chromatic Scale, and you use each of the scale for your "flavor/feel" needs, or just follow the table instructions.

    GR-Table1.PNG GR-Table2.PNG
     
    Mushroo likes this.
  12. davidhilton

    davidhilton Commercial User

    Apr 13, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    Both those descriptions hurt my brain! hahahahaha I remember the first time a student came in and said how the jazz minor is just a major scale with a b3.... bam!! my head couldn't handle it!!! hahhahha I guess it doesn't matter how one goes about learning it. Minor scale with a raised 6 and a raised 7 was the way I learned it. Also it's easy to learn by playing a minor tetrachord on the bottom and a maj tetrachord on top. And all the modes off the jazz min are easy if you already have down the Gregorian modes i.e. dorian b2, lydian #5, lydian b7, mixo b13, locrian natural 9. The only one that doesn't really relate to a gregorian mode is the alt'd scale starting on the 7th degree of the jazz minor. Anyway, theres no absolute way to learn all this stuff, many ways to go about it. Good luck!
    www.basslessonslosangeles.com
     
    Whousedtoplay likes this.

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