Melodic minor question

[misterCRUSH]

Calling all theory nerds...I did something in practice that I'm really liking today. I have been playing around with the melodic minor. So, G major, E melodic minor. What I did today was to play that same melodic minor pattern, but in relation to the mixolydian scale. i.e. in the same key, D mixolydian, B melodic minor pattern. I really love the sound of it but my question is: What would this version of the melodic minor scale be called? I'm pretty good at theory but never have come across this before. Thanks in advance! BASS.

 

[MuseChaser]

Calling all theory nerds...I did something in practice that I'm really liking today. I have been playing around with the melodic minor. So, G major, E melodic minor. What I did today was to play that same melodic minor pattern, but in relation to the mixolydian scale. i.e. in the same key, D mixolydian, B melodic minor pattern. I really love the sound of it but my question is: What would this version of the melodic minor scale be called? I'm pretty good at theory but never have come across this before. Thanks in advance! BASS.

Just to be sure I understand what you're trying to say, some definitions first..

1. A (natural) minor scale starts on the sixth note of the relative major scale, utilizing the key signature of that major scale,
2. That scale becomes a melodic minor scale when the sixth and seventh notes of the scale are raised one half step each, but only when as ending. Descending, it's the same as the natural minor. An E melodic minor scale would be...
E, F#,G, A, B, C#,D#,E, D, C, B, A, G, F#,E.

3. A mixolydian scale starts on the fifth major scale degree. D mixolydian would be....

D, E, F#,G, A, B, C, D (and descend the same way)

Now, if you play starting on the sixth note of THAT scale (which happens to be B, the third note of the associated major scale, G major), you are really playing B phrygian (the mode based on the third of a major scale)...

B, C, D, E, F#,G, A, B

That's not a "minor" scale of any kind (typically, you'll find it used when playing over a 7b9, 7#9, or alt7 chord),so there's no way to make it a "melodic minor."

Still, if we apply the "raise the 6th and 7th ascending only" rule for melodic minor, we get...

B, C, D, E, F#,G#,A#,B, A, G, F#,E, D, C, B

Is that the scale you're describing? If so, I'm not aware of a specific name for it, but if you like the sound there's no reason not to practice and use it.

In solos, entire uninterrupted octave runs are rarely used anyway. Scales, modes, and altered scale practice is quite useful to develop facility and to fully acquaint one's ear with all the sounds and tonal palettes available to us, but practicing shorter fragments, constantly shifting direction and modes/scales/key centers once the scale/modes are mastered really helps expand capabilities.

 

[Les Fret]

B melodic minor over D mixolydian doesn’t have a name that I know of. It will sound a bit outside, depending on the chords and context. What chord progression are you using with this exactly?

You can also try a D lydian b7 scale over D mixolydian.

 

[Nashrakh]

Maybe the Neapolitan major scale fits, if I understand your question correctly.

 

[petermwright]

Calling all theory nerds...I did something in practice that I'm really liking today. I have been playing around with the melodic minor. So, G major, E melodic minor. What I did today was to play that same melodic minor pattern, but in relation to the mixolydian scale. i.e. in the same key, D mixolydian, B melodic minor pattern. I really love the sound of it but my question is: What would this version of the melodic minor scale be called? I'm pretty good at theory but never have come across this before. Thanks in advance! BASS.

It’s not entirely clear what you mean - the mixolydian scale is based on the major scale, and doesn’t appear in melodic minor harmony.

If you mean the 3rd mode of the melodic minor (playing B melodic minor but starting on D), then don’t know if there’s a universally accepted band for it, but it goes with a maj7#5 chord. It’s like a major scale with #4 and #5.

 

[Wasnex]

Harmonic and Melodic minor generate a set of altered modes. I don't actually know this stuff...but I built a cheat sheet a few years back when I had the aspiration of trying to learn .

I believe these are the modes associated with melodic minor.

In E natural minor, Mixolydian mode is built off the 7th scale degree: D,E,F#,G,A,B,C

The chord is D7 = D,F#,A,C

In E melodic minor the 6th and 7th scale degrees are raised: D#,E,F#,G,A,B,C# = Superlocrian

The chord is D#-7b5 = D#,F#,A,C# (makes my brain burn!)

The 5th mode of E melodic minor is B,C#,D#,E,F#,G,A = Mixolydian b6

The chord is B7 = B,D#,F#,A

I suspect it would be more common to use the 5th mode derived from the Harmonic minor though: B,C,D#,E,F#,G,A = Phrygian Dominant

The chord is still B7 = B,D#,F#,A...the only difference is you would have a b9.

I believe these are the modes generated from harmonic minor.

Hopefully I didn't screw anything up .

 

[InhumanResource]

Calling all theory nerds...I did something in practice that I'm really liking today. I have been playing around with the melodic minor. So, G major, E melodic minor. What I did today was to play that same melodic minor pattern, but in relation to the mixolydian scale. i.e. in the same key, D mixolydian, B melodic minor pattern. I really love the sound of it but my question is: What would this version of the melodic minor scale be called? I'm pretty good at theory but never have come across this before. Thanks in advance! BASS.

I think I get it. So you were still playing in G major (since you mentioned D mixolydian as reference point) and were messing with melodic minor based on the third scale degree, which would be B in the key of G. Correct?

This kind of makes sense and might sound good depending on the exact accompanying harmony. The diatonic mode there is B phrygian which looks like natural minor with a flat 2. So depending on what else is going on in the tune, harmonic minor might sound cool there.

 

[TreySonagras]

It is really hard to have a discussion about music theory on a forum. It would be so much easier if we were sitting around a piano and playing examples.

As has been said before: Talking about music is like dancing about art.

 

[Dlew919]

I'm concurring that you've hit on minor modes. Extremely cool - Zappa-esque and John Zorn...

 

[dbsfgyd1]

It is really hard to have a discussion about music theory on a forum. It would be so much easier if we were sitting around a piano and playing examples.

As has been said before: Talking about music is like dancing about art.

‘Agreed, i don’t know what this stuff I play is called most of the time. I just know how and when to use it and get it out of my instruments LOL!!! There are what, 13 notes in western music. There are only so many combinations to get from point A to point B (typical bassist point of view) LOL!!.

On the other hand, working on very complex orchestral compositions or taking dictation of such, I can see where this knowledge would be very useful. All I can say is God bless the engineers. i wouldn’t want to be one. LOL!!!
The world should be grateful I’m not.

 

[MuseChaser]

‘...There are what, 13 notes in western music. ....

I've been searching for that thirteenth note all my life. Webern would be SOOOOO peeved!

 

[themickster]

Calling all theory nerds...I did something in practice that I'm really liking today. I have been playing around with the melodic minor. So, G major, E melodic minor. What I did today was to play that same melodic minor pattern, but in relation to the mixolydian scale. i.e. in the same key, D mixolydian, B melodic minor pattern. I really love the sound of it but my question is: What would this version of the melodic minor scale be called? I'm pretty good at theory but never have come across this before. Thanks in advance! BASS.

B minor has C#. D mixolydian - G major key signature - has C natural. That makes them the same, but for one note. C# in G major is the flatted fifth, which works. You'd been playing notes that fit both Bm and G.

 

[petermwright]

I feel like everyone who has answered has interpreted the question differently. We could do with the OP clarifying the question, I’m thinking.

 

[mambo4]

The notes of the D Mixolydian scale are
D E F♯ G A B C.
The notes of B melodic minor(ascending) are
B C♯ D E F♯ G♯ A♯

I agree the OP is confounding some terms perhaps.
Usually you contrast a scale or mode against a harmony/chord

So "B melodic minor against D Mixolydian" communicates sub-optimally.
the D mixolydian "sound" is a D7 chord
Considering "B melodic minor against D7 harmony" can point us in a useful direction

Comparing the notes in the context of D7
D E F♯ G A B C
D E F♯ G♯ A♯ B C♯
The differences are an aug 4th, aug 5th and maj 7th
the augmented 4 and 5 imply an D7 alt (altered dominant) sound
(ignoring the maj 7th )
So I'm guessing that is what the OP is hearing and liking, without any clearer context.

Or perhaps the op is mashing the two scales together and getting Jamerson style chromatic runs, idk

 

[MuseChaser]

Comparing the notes in the context of D7
D E F♯ G A B C
D E F♯ G♯ A♯ B C♯
The differences are an aug 4th, aug 5th and maj 7th
the augmented 4 and 5 imply an D7 alt (altered dominant) sound
(ignoring the maj 7th )
So I'm guessing that is what the OP is hearing and liking, without any clearer context.
..

That scale would work well over a DaugMaj7 chord, a sound that's gained a lot of traction in (relatively) recent years in jazz. I'm old. Relatively recent could mean the past thirty years....

 

[misterCRUSH]

I think I get it. So you were still playing in G major (since you mentioned D mixolydian as reference point) and were messing with melodic minor based on the third scale degree, which would be B in the key of G. Correct?

This kind of makes sense and might sound good depending on the exact accompanying harmony. The diatonic mode there is B phrygian which looks like natural minor with a flat 2. So depending on what else is going on in the tune, harmonic minor might sound cool there.

That's it!! I'm calling it Chrushlydian minor

 

[bigjames]

Maybe the Neapolitan major scale fits, if I understand your question correctly.

I had somehow never heard of this before. Thanks for sharing...just did a review and will play it tonight to hear what is sounds like.

 

[RobertAuCoin]

You can also try a D lydian b7 scale over D mixolydian.

If I understand, this really means to play the exact same thing as a D major blues scale.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I've been searching for that thirteenth note all my life. Webern would be SOOOOO peeved!

Hilarious! Isn’t that what they call a blue note?

 

[Groove Master]

Calling all theory nerds...I did something in practice that I'm really liking today. I have been playing around with the melodic minor. So, G major, E melodic minor. What I did today was to play that same melodic minor pattern, but in relation to the mixolydian scale. i.e. in the same key, D mixolydian, B melodic minor pattern. I really love the sound of it but my question is: What would this version of the melodic minor scale be called? I'm pretty good at theory but never have come across this before. Thanks in advance! BASS.

I think what you call a melodic minor is actually the Natural minor or Aeolian mode (sixth mode of the major scale) which is relative minor of the Major key.