Members not making gigs

[oZZma]

This is simply unacceptable IMO. And disrespectful. To me it’s an automatic, immediate dismissal. In any professional band I’ve ever been part of it wouldn’t be tolerated.
.

This is unacceptable in any situation, professional or not. Your commitment should be towards the band, and towards your music, not towards who's paying or not paying you
If one has such a shallow interest in music, better find another "hobby", table tennis will not ruin you vacation plans

 

[City]

We interrupt this thread for some smart arse comments...



Not a golfer I take it....

Carry on....

I did....and I quit....very very long ago. It became apparent that money would be better spent on basses, amps, cabs and pedals!!!

 

[HolmeBass]

If this place is paying you little to nothing they obviously don’t really care, so just do the gig as a trio. Maybe do all the gigs as a trio. At least level with this guy that he needs to respect your efforts to book and reply responsibly about dates when asked.

 

[mcnach]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

I'm with your partner. Do the gig without the other guitarist. IN fact, maybe book more as a trio in the future.

My main band is a bit unusual in that it has 3 guitarists (we're an 8 piece ska/funk band). There is one that we absolutely need, who plays rhythm and backing vocals. The lead singer plays some lead guitar too. There's a third guitarist that plays some extra rhythm with unusual chords, and lots of lead and generally adding embellishments. The three guitars sound good together as there's spaces left for every one. A couple of years ago this guy started being a bit difficult. I won't go into it, but just say we had to play a gig without him because it was too late to cancel. And... it was good! Different, but good. Guy started missing rehearsals too and we got used to him not being there. When he was there, great! When he wasn't... great! We stopped waiting for him to confirm gigs because he'd take weeks and often cancel anyway...
The band carried on, and eventually he felt a bit hurt that he didn't seem important to us. We had a chat and say that we prefer if he is with us, but he can't hold the band hostage when he is unable to confirm gigs for weeks and cancelling here and there for no particular reason...
He finally got his act together.
No kittens were harmed.

 

[lat]

If you’re playing for free, he’s playing for free and that’s what you get - very low priority. What’s he supposed to do? Tell his wife that he can’t go on vacation because there is a free gig at the VFW? This whole commitment thing isn’t a one way street.

Totally agree that commitment isn't a one way street. Everyone in the band should be committed to the band. The payback to that commitment is that the band provides an outlet for your playing. If you don't commit to the band, then it can't reciprocate and provide you that creative outlet.
The money shouldn't determine whether or not you will back out of a gig. It should determine whether or not you agree to do the gig in the first place. Once you've agreed, you're committed.

 

[7615]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

Your partner's attitude is correct. "We play awfully cheap and for free." If you thought of playing as a 3 piece as an opportunity for the bass to play differently/more you might have some fun. "I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece." Quack - your partner is 100% correct. Don't sweat little sh..

 

[arbiterusa]

No money? I'll show up if I feel like it, but I'll let you know in advance. Which the guitarist has.

My advice? Don't cancel, play any gigs he doesn't show to as a trio. Your partner is showing some wisdom that you really need to learn.

 

[Jehos]

Yeah I'd have a hard time taking a "unpaid or effectively unpaid" gig seriously if it didn't have some other perks or reason for me to be there. Like I play at church for free, but it's church. I'm going to be there anyway, and leading worship just makes it that much better. Bar gigs? Forget it. Guilt at turning the gig down would be my only motivation, and that isn't going to last forever.

If the guitarist is giving reasonable notice, that's about the best you can expect. It could be worse, he could just be a no-show on gig night.

 

[Pork_Chop]

Thanks for the replies. I have a suspicion that the money is part of it as a couple of you have stated. No money? No stress. Its run like a hobby. That's for sure. I appreciate the feedback.

It always bothers me when hobbyist, or people who don't need the money, but want to play out, don't charge anything. There are musicians out there that paying gigs is their sole form of income. When "hobbyists" play venues for free, they are destroying the market. They may not care, but the professional musician certainly is feeling the pinch. If you don't want to charge, play in your basement for friends.

Quick story...One of my band mate's wife is the entertainment manager for a local restaurant. She booked our band to play a big event in which the restaurant would make a lot of money. I wrongfully assumed we would be paid our standard rate. When it was time to collect, she gave me a gift card to the restaurant. I voiced my displeasure. She didn't understand, nor did her husband, my band mate. Fast forward a few months. We needed some promo work done, and the same band mate asked if we could use his friend who owns a professional marketing company. We agreed, then I asked him if he accepts gift cards for payment.

 

[andawun]

Try it as a trio. You may find that you really like it.

 

[arbiterusa]

It always bothers me when hobbyist, or people who don't need the money, but want to play out, don't charge anything. There are musicians out there that paying gigs is their sole form of income. When "hobbyists" play venues for free, they are destroying the market. They may not care, but the professional musician certainly is feeling the pinch. If you don't want to charge, play in your basement for friends.

When someone does this, they are literally stealing money from people who do it for a living. To say I agree would be an understatement.

 

[Charlzm]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

Line up a new 4th.

 

[JRA]

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted.

sure you're pissy...and i get your "feelings" --- but you might want to check/attenuate your 'actions' to match the reality:

My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.

Try it as a trio. You may find that you really like it.

good luck with your gig!

 

[waveman]

So does the dude have wife and kids? If so, and this is a hobby, and you ain't gettin' paid much, his prioroties are in the right place. Just suck it up, take it in stride and do it as a 3 piece.

My band, which is a hobby band for me just had a discussion of how we would manage if one of us couldn't make a certain date. You should plan for these things if you gig that often.

 

[james condino]

Finding an unemployed guitar player who can make a short notice gig in Staten Island is about as difficult as finding a unemployed yoga instructor in Austin. Hire one an move on....

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Totally agree that commitment isn't a one way street. Everyone in the band should be committed to the band. The payback to that commitment is that the band provides an outlet for your playing. If you don't commit to the band, then it can't reciprocate and provide you that creative outlet.
The money shouldn't determine whether or not you will back out of a gig. It should determine whether or not you agree to do the gig in the first place. Once you've agreed, you're committed.

Maybe in a perfect world, but in reality land of a conflict comes up guess which one loses?

 

[Slaphound]

When someone does this, they are literally stealing money from people who do it for a living. To say I agree would be an understatement.

Well, these are the kind of gigs that a person relying on for money wouldn't play. The two free venues are park organizations that look for volunteers and we like to play outside in the daytime as well as working a bar at night. The bars that we play in pay only $200-$300 per band anyway. I don't think we are hurting anyone.

 

[lat]

No kittens were harmed.

Maybe in a perfect world, but in reality land of a conflict comes up guess which one loses?

 

[longfinger]

I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free.

If the gig is booked using just your face and contact, then going with a sub for the night will not even be noticed. Ditto playing it as a 3 person group.

You play for cheap and free so really it's a charity social club band and deserves to be lower priority in band members' lives than paid work and family time. If you need the guy to be there, pay him, then he can prioritize. (But even with $, travel time with family/friends is important and can be worth more than a gig night's salary.) You have very little leverage here.

Are you performing this guy's (2nd guitar/backing vox) original music and are wondering why he, the star composer, is backing out? Justified.
Doing a bar gig with standard material for free, and are upset that instead he wants to do a weekend vacation with people important to him? Not justified.

For those who say "fire him", remember that you have to be in a paid working job to be fired. This is not that.

 

[39-Bassist]

Agree to try it trio and / or look for a hired gun to step in...he will get the idea then...and of course search for a replacement.