Members not making gigs

[smogg]

Great reply.

OP is frustrated about one of his band member not showing up. The solution is getting a sub. That is very simple.

That guy not showing up already knows about the "money situation". He should quit instead of finding excuses. If you don't wanna play for free, make it clear and stop wasting everybody's time. That was my point.

I understand your point. But.... in my neck of the woods subs expect to be paid, period.

 

[Rogatien]

I understand your point. But.... in my neck of the woods subs expect to be paid, period.

Then you tell that to the sub. He has a choice to make: yes or no. If it's always no, then OP has to change the way he does business because he might be wrong.

 

[bigswifty1]

<SNIP>We play awfully cheap and for free.<SNIP>

Well I hate to seem harsh but I think this is what you get if you don't (or minutely) pay someone. You're paying them in the non-legal-tender of "satisfaction" - IMO inadequate compensation for how much of a hassle most gigs are. And IME (and also speaking personally), "passion" (as payment) will only go so far - in the case of this band member, not far enough. If my band wasn't paying me, I would choose a vacation/holiday over gigs every day.

Having got all that snark out of the way, nothing tells someone they are replaceable by continuing JUST FINE without them. Figure out a way to carry it off as a three piece if there's no replacement.

 

[bigswifty1]

No money? I'll show up if I feel like it, but I'll let you know in advance. Which the guitarist has.

My advice? Don't cancel, play any gigs he doesn't show to as a trio. Your partner is showing some wisdom that you really need to learn.

Totally with you!

 

[CaseyVancouver]

When there is little to no money you may want to be a lot more flexible.
I often gig with subs or without ‘key’ people in bands. Makes things musically interesting.

I would not hesitate to book out of a low paying gig for a decent vacation. I would have serious concerns even trying to get a sub for myself if the pay is not great.

 

[bigswifty1]

Hire one an move on....

I would agree except that the OP's gigs are either free or nearly free - the cause of many many band problems IME.

 

[electracoyote]

I understand your point. But.... in my neck of the woods subs expect to be paid, period.

Same here. A sub for a freebie is not the best solution.

But if you have three guys who are committed and get rewarded from a freebie, that's their thing and they enjoy it. Maybe the sense of pride and the fun and hang are enough.

Fourth guy can't be bothered. One of these things is not like the others.

They should replace him with a more like-minded individual. And there are some pretty good musicians out there who will play freebies, especially when you do some quick math and realize that as a weekend warrior, you're not getting paid nearly enough to offset the hours of rehearsal, performance, travel, equipment, etc. That $50.00-$100.00 average gig pay amounts to pennies per hour at best.

 

[dan1952]

Thanks for the replies. I have a suspicion that the money is part of it as a couple of you have stated. No money? No stress. Its run like a hobby. That's for sure. I appreciate the feedback.

If a band plays for free or almost free all the time, I think it's fairly unrealistic to expect any real commitment from the members. To me, the BL isn't showing much respect for the members, expecting people to donate their time and talent to play gigs. Despite what one may think, most events have a budget, with money being paid out for the location, food, beverages, security, sound, etc.. To ask folks to give up their time all the time is very disrespectful. IMHO, of course.

 

[pcake]

for all we know, the guy is periodically a flake who would have cancelled even if the gig had paid well. lots of us have worked with people who cancelled after agreeing to a paid show. heck, we have people on this very board who've had people who flaked or cancelled on good paying shows that had importance to the band.

 

[smogg]

Yes, some are content with playing "rock star" for very little or free. Apparently the guitarist is not one of those types. Switching to a trio might well be the best option.

Same here. A sub for a freebie is not the best solution.

But if you have three guys who are committed and get rewarded from a freebie, that's there thing and they enjoy it. Maybe the sense of pride and the fun and hang are enough.

Fourth guy can't be bothered. One of these things is not like the others.

They should replace him with a more like-minded individual. And there are some pretty good musicians out there who will play freebies, especially when you do some quick math and realize that as a weekend warrior, you're not getting paid nearly enough to offset the hours of rehearsal, performance, travel, equipment, etc. That $50.00-$100.00 average gig pay amounts to pennies per hour at best.

 

[Spectrum]

Yes, some are content with playing "rock star" for very little or free. Apparently the guitarist is not one of those types. Switching to a trio might well be the best option.

You don't have enough information about the guitarist to say that.

Assuming the OP is telling it straight, what we do know about the guitarist is that he knows this doesn't pay well, still agrees to do gigs, and then flakes.

You may mock people who do art/music things for fun, and you may cynically imply that it's okay to lie to your band mates and then flake on them because you agreed to play for free when you really want to get paid. But it's not okay. It's dishonest and untrustworthy. If you expect to get paid, say so in advance and refuse to agree to the gig before it's booked. Otherwise show up and fulfill your commitment.

I agree with you that switching to a trio is the best option until they find a replacement.

 

[MrLenny1]

Playing for cheao and free may be part of the issue.
Good luck.

 

[juancaminos]

Oh Man did we go thru this. It's so hard to hold a band together sometimes. During the Fools reign our first guitar player started to wonder off of personal things, the next one ended up homeless with guitar in hock (man he was great too). #3 came with drummer #2 both thought nothing of cancelling gigs. #4 was pretty good and pretty serious but as soon as we got a second guitar player he left. So the second guitar player became the lead guy and we got another. These last guys never missed a gig however one of them became so anal about things and only played well on his songs then came the end.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

I can relate to how you feel. I’ve missed funerals for gigs over the years. I absolutely hate to cancel a gig. And it can be particularly frustrating when the person who backs out of the gig never puts any effort into booking gigs themselves. For that reason I refuse to be the only member of the band handling booking.

 

[smogg]

You don't have enough information about the guitarist to say that.

Assuming the OP is telling it straight, what we do know about the guitarist is that he knows this doesn't pay well, still agrees to do gigs, and then flakes.

You may mock people who do art/music things for fun, and you may cynically imply that it's okay to lie to your band mates and then flake on them because you agreed to play for free when you really want to get paid. But it's not okay. It's dishonest and untrustworthy. If you expect to get paid, say so in advance and refuse to agree to the gig before it's booked. Otherwise show up and fulfill your commitment.

I agree with you that switching to a trio is the best option until they find a replacement.

I'm not mocking people who play for free or for the sake of art. If it makes you happy then good on you. Based on the op the player in question did not flake out imo. He has given prior notice that he is no longer available for the show. That is the right thing to do. It's not like he just did not show up.

I don't lie, cheat, or steal. Nor do I condone it. IMO your "judgement" of my character (and the person in question) is questionable at best. We simply have a different perspective of the situation. There is no right or wrong, good or bad here. It's all just opinion and conjecture nothing more.

 

[gln1955]

Everyone would prefer to get paid, but if a person's willingness to honor a commitment is dependent on how much they're getting paid, that's someone I don't need in my band. Don't wanna play for free? Don't agree to the gig or, if this is the norm, bow out of the band and find something that pays better.

 

[HardNHeavy]

kick his a** out....F him!...lol.....Do the gig as a trio, but you said he's done this twice already...soo.....3 strikes and your out

 

[Slaphound]

Very inspiring. All these great responses. I'm not cancelling. We'll do it as a trio or we'll find a replacement. My concern was for the bar that pays. That we weren't going to be who we said we were. I was stuck thinking that we HAD to be a 4 piece because that's how we have been establishing ourselves. It felt like it would sound hollow in comparison to what we are supposed to sound like. I'm probably a little delusional. LOL Who knows, right?

......and eventually he's gonna go.

 

[bbh]

I’d try to get a fillin, I didn’t see anyone mention it but haven’t read the complete thread.
I understand and commiserate with you feelings on this so it’s time to look at it from a different point of view.
It’s just business. I think either he needs replacing, well maybe 1 more chance, or time to find a band where they are all more serious.
I’ve never had a bar care if we had a different lineup. I think will be ok either way. Good luck on the gig.

 

[Jeff Elkins]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

Just a point of clarification - did he "accidentally book the travel" after accepting the gig, or did he accept the gig forgetting he already had travel plans?