Members not making gigs

[Slaphound]

Just a point of clarification - did he "accidentally book the travel" after accepting the gig, or did he accept the gig forgetting he already had travel plans?

He never said. I believe that it was strongly implied that he wasn't paying attention when he booked the trip. But now that you say it, I don't think it's really know. Just that he told me he was available when I asked him before I committed to the bar.

 

[bassburner]

A band is a commitment regardless of what you're getting paid and I expect all members to follow that. Short of something like a death in the family I personally have a zero tolerance policy for cancelling a gig. People who do that are going to be issues on other ways as well.

 

[bobdabilder]

If you're not paying, you get what you get.

 

[Downunderwonder]

We interrupt this thread for some smart arse comments...



Not a golfer I take it....

Carry on....

Or a Mets supporter.

 

[JimmyM]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

You're being a little pissy IMHO People have lives, they make plans, and sometimes it interferes with gigs. Even at the pro level, unless they're making beaucoup bucks and gigs are booked well in advance, you'll find players occasionally having to miss gigs. Thank God too, because I get a decent amount of sidework that way! And especially when you play for little to no money, good luck finding people who will make every single gig. It's reality. Either cancel the gig or get a sub. But for little or no money, I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about showing up as a 3-pc, either. Now if you were getting $150+ per person, that's another story, but for lowballing gigs, they're not paying by the person.

 

[Teddybear]

It seems to me that everyone is offering advice based upon band management, or if it is a paying job. I say that doesn't enter into it. I guess you can call me old school but I feel strongly that if you say you will do something - do it. Period! No arguments, excuses, or explanations. This goes for anything from playing gigs to cleaning toilets. It is black and white with no gray area. If there is even the slightest chance that you can't (or won't) do something don't say you will. I am intolerant of promises that are not kept.

"Maybe", and, "If I can." have always worked well for me in the past.

 

[Spectrum]

I'm not mocking people who play for free or for the sake of art. If it makes you happy then good on you. Based on the op the player in question did not flake out imo. He has given prior notice that he is no longer available for the show. That is the right thing to do. It's not like he just did not show up.

I don't lie, cheat, or steal. Nor do I condone it. IMO your "judgement" of my character (and the person in question) is questionable at best. We simply have a different perspective of the situation. There is no right or wrong, good or bad here. It's all just opinion and conjecture nothing more.

Fair points.

 

[Stumbo]

Why do you play for cheap or free? Especially at venues that are there to make profit off your efforts.

 

[oZZma]

It seems to me that everyone is offering advice based upon band management, or if it is a paying job.

Yeah and aside from this, the whole mindset that being in a band is all about the money makes me cringe

 

[JimmyM]

Yeah and aside from this, the whole mindset that being in a band is all about the money makes me cringe

If it was all about the money for me, I'd go make money. But I DO want paid and I make no apologies about it. But if there's no money to be had, then I think a bandleader should be more tolerant if someone has to blow off an occasional gig.

 

[bigswifty1]

But I DO want paid and I make no apologies about it.

Totally agree. I've said it before but IMO nothing says your time is worthless like providing it for no payment. I exclude registered charity events and such.

 

[Mark Ambler]

I will presume that you previously made your commitment expectations clear, so simply say 'thanks', but this isn't what we agreed upon, so good luck with you future endeavours. No drama needed.

Anyway, best find a dep or two regardless of the outcome, best thing to do in these circumstances, imo.

 

[pcake]

Very inspiring. All these great responses. I'm not cancelling. We'll do it as a trio or we'll find a replacement. My concern was for the bar that pays. That we weren't going to be who we said we were. I was stuck thinking that we HAD to be a 4 piece because that's how we have been establishing ourselves. It felt like it would sound hollow in comparison to what we are supposed to sound like. I'm probably a little delusional. LOL Who knows, right?

......and eventually he's gonna go.

one of my favorite bands i was ever in was a 3 piece, and we rocked. our sound was full and fat, the bass sometimes did the second guitar part if it helped the sound of the sound. we adjusted our sound to sound fuller, and in one song instead of playing a single string as per the song we were covering, i played it on 2 strings, and that worked well.

besides, you're playing a bar gig, and often the audiences aren't picky. i've seen bands i would never be a part of play, get people up and dancing and when each song was done, get enthusiastic applause. one local band had a 10+ residency at a very large bar, and they never improved - the drummer would mess up beats here and there, guitar would hit obvious wrong notes, bass player would speed up, the singer would come in late, but people loved them and would come out every week to see them. so i'd say that band fulfilled their main functions - they brought drinkers to the club, kept them happy and gave them a great time.

and isn't that at least a big part of the point?

 

[Downunderwonder]

at least a big part of the point?

not at all. It is the entire point.

 

[lbbc]

I am in a trio (guitar, bass, female vocalist). My guitarist, in the past, had a habit of cancelling gigs. Since I'm the BL and booking agent it makes me look bad as the "face of the Band" to club owners. Last year I decided to record background tracks (without bass or vocals) and do the 2 gigs he bailed on. The owners of the establishments were thrilled and said they only book us as a duo from now on (at the same rate of pay as a trio). Moral of the story, guitarist learned his lesson and hasn't bailed on any jobs in a year AND my wife and I are doing some gigs as a duo.
Do what you need to do to continue gigging...it may just work out!

 

[pcake]

not at all. It is the entire point.

i agree, but there are people here (and i've known a few in person) who play songs people don't like at shows and keep playing them even though they can clear a room with them or at least have people stand there waiting for the next band, so i figured they may have other motivations. i'm sure they see it in some way i can't see it.

 

[jeffb28451]

Same issues due to rhythm guitarist. Nice guy and a decent musician. He added a lot.

Unfortunately, he must have thought he added so much that we wouldn’t can him.

He was wrong.

He had some “emotional “ issues and just thought he was being generous showing up to practice, being punctual or returning from breaks. We did good four part harmonies and, with me as the new guy and thus going from 3 to 4 part, some practice was needed. He made it clear that he didn’t think he had to “ help” me, as he put it. I’ve be playing for over 50 years and let me assure you, I-4-5 ain’t that difficult, but figuring out 4 part vocal lines is a little challenge.

We did old country, newer rock and everything in between. So....the band sounded a little different at first. As three piece, we learned to “embrace the spaces” and not try to fill everything in. I used a couple of pedals to thicken the bottom end up. The now “ lead” guitarist also doubled on sax and harmonica, so we were scared of the lack of rhythm fill. We did it anyway and played like that’s the way we meant it.

End product: better morale, a sense of unity, more money each, and that wonderful smug feeling that comes from saying, “we told you so”.

 

[PauFerro]

I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted.

I had a keyboard player who liked to do this to me, without any apology or sense of accountability. And he loved to remind others in front of me he couldn't make it.

My thoughts -- use this an opportunity to groom someone else for this guy's position for gigs. It sounds like you priced these cheap, so you might have a bit of trouble getting someone good, but I'd try.

People not being available is a fact of life in part-time groups, and since you have no one on a retainer, you can't dictate that they be available all the time. So, have a long list of subs available. You can get to the point you can just book the gig without checking with anyone.

That's what I would do -- go through the hassle of subbing this guy's position out. Eventually you won't care if he's available or not. And if he gets out of line after giving him the courtesy of a frank conversation about it, you will have others who can take his place.

 

[Slaphound]

Why do you play for cheap or free? Especially at bars that are there to make profit off your efforts.

Because. I don't know what or how to charge a bar when we play. They always ask about our 'following' and if we are bringing people. So I don't know. Yes we have a following but i can't tell you if everyone who follows us is coming out. So when the first bar offered us $200 for a 4 hour gig, I took it. Everyone else in the band was happy too. We pool our money. For concerts together, band equipment.... stuff like that.

If it was all about the money for me, I'd go make money. But I DO want paid and I make no apologies about it. But if there's no money to be had, then I think a bandleader should be more tolerant if someone has to blow off an occasional gig.

I think that if I can put the effort in to get the gigs, invite the fans(lol) deal with the bars and venues and I ASK YOU FIRST if your available, and then you say down the line, as we are talking about the upcoming gigs, that you booked a trip for that day.......***? Write this poopie down. You're an adult? No one can do this twice and not think to 'emselfs, "Hmm. Wonder if this is a problem."

 

[dBChad]

Back in February, the 3 piece I play in held auditions for a singer. We chose the most talented guy who showed up and booked a gig for a month out. He started skipping rehearsals, and when he did show up, he would be hours late and usually hung over. We let him go and played the show as a trio.

Talent is important, but being a team player is more important. Performing as a trio had us re-think our show, divy up the set list (we each sang the songs in our vocal range, drummer included) and now we attract a lot of attention because we rotate instruments during our show (we can each play guitar, drums, and bass to some extent).

Sometimes an unreliable member forces you to become creative, and that could end up being an asset down the road. It's frustrating at the time, but it can force creativity where the status quo breeds complacency.