Members not making gigs

[buldog5151bass]

Slightly OT, but rather than pooling money for band equipment, people should be buying their own pieces separately. What is going to happen when a band member leaves (or gets canned, as may happen here)? It's gonna get ugly.

 

[Kukulkan61]

Rip his head off and s#&% down his neck..
In all seriousness you guys gotta start treating the band like a business and charge for your time and effort that your putting into the band, it can still be a hobby but your making money too..

 

[Slaphound]

Rip his head off and s#&% down his neck..
In all seriousness you guys gotta start treating the band like a business and charge for your time and effort that your putting into the band, it can still be a hobby but your making money too..

Thanks I agree. What to charge? I told you what these bar owners ask.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Thanks I agree. What to charge? I told you what these bar owners ask.

Do these places have a good built in crowd, or are they dependent on your draw to make money? How many people can you reasonably expect to draw to come see you? Are they charging a cover for bands? What are other bands there making (don't be afraid to ask - but not at the venue, be somewhat sly on this)? You are in Staten Island - unless you are playing absolute caves, the places should pay reasonable if you have any and of a following.

These are the major factors. I think most people here, especially in urban areas, are charging minimum $100 per member.

 

[LBS-bass]

Thanks I agree. What to charge? I told you what these bar owners ask.

They always ask that. They want you to tell them you'll play for cheap or free, so they stick you with the responsibility of bringing in people so that they don't have to do any marketing on their own. It's all a big win/win for them. At some point we all have to decide if we're going to play these kinds of jobs or not. I like to think they get what they pay for, and that's often true.

 

[Vooter]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

Personally, I'd get rid of him and play as a trio, then find someone else. My band went through a different but similar situation this past year: Our keyboard player (who was an excellent player), either couldn't or wouldn't practice and/or learn his parts--every gig was a new adventure. We all loved what keys did for our sound, so we gave him lots of chances, but no dice. We cut him loose, and while our sound has obviously changed, we've discovered that we're much looser and tighter (how's that for an oxymoron?) as a trio...

 

[Keyser Soze]

Start doing some rehearsals as a trio NOW. Make no secret of them to your rhythm guitarist, book them at rehearsal, right in front of him.. If/when he asks what's up, tell him, "We're preparing to play as a trio." Say no more. Let him think about that.

 

[lat]

Do these places have a good built in crowd, or are they dependent on your draw to make money? How many people can you reasonably expect to draw to come see you? Are they charging a cover for bands? What are other bands there making (don't be afraid to ask - but not at the venue, be somewhat sly on this)? You are in Staten Island - unless you are playing absolute caves, the places should pay reasonable if you have any and of a following.

These are the major factors. I think most people here, especially in urban areas, are charging minimum $100 per member.

Different country, same points to consider and same minimum going rate.

 

[Rabidhamster]

i'm old enough to be old school about gigs ... as in ; the show must go on ..!!

i played full time 5- nights a week for 30 yrs , missed 1 night = food poisoning from previous weeks gig ..!

another example ; just drove a thousand miles to help my mom with my dad's ' end of life ' care ... and she knows i have gigs coming up that i will not miss for any reason ..!

i'm 62 , and have always taken my entertainment job seriously ..!!

and will not work with anyone who doesn't ... or can't effectively communicate and keep their dates and crap straight .!

i'd fire the guy , like yesterday ..!

You’re not doing any of those gigs for free. You won’t miss the gig because it’s your job. It’s different to go to work because you need money.

But forget all of those gigs where your family is concerned. Let em miss you

 

[Space Pickle]

This is what can happen when you play free gigs.

 

[RustyAxe]

If one is a "working band" (i.e.; not a hobby band) there are precious few good reasons to back out of a gig after confirming. But this isn't that. There might be a personal ethical reason to have a "show must go on" attitude, such as being there for one's buddies like promised. But other than that, there's no way I'd work my summer family plans around five or six no/low paying gigs. I strive to NOT work all summer, turn down outdoor gigs, regardless of what they pay (I don't play for free) that seem to pop up all summer on short notice.

So IMO the issue here is a lack of commitment to the group on the part of the 2nd guitarist, and NOT about the guy's un-professional attitude. It isn't ... because he isn't, and evidently doesn't care to be (and there's nothing wrong with that).

 

[swafran]

Well, it's awfully hard playing with people who aren't there.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Folks. I find myself in a bad spot right now. I am the bassist and band manager of my band. I've been playing with the Singer/guitarist for about 8 years and we have been part of a few bands that we put together over that time. We are a 4 piece band and one member (the second guitar/backing vox) has allowed me to book a gig and then only to tell me that he 'mistakenly' made travel plans over the weekend of the gig. He did it last year and he did it again this year.
I book the gigs with my face and my contact and no one else's. We play awfully cheap and for free. With 5 gigs lined up from now until the end of August, I find myself having a very hard time swallowing this. I feel personally betrayed and very hurt. I feel that this one guy could give a &*#k about anyone else. You don't do this twice. I am this close to cancelling the rest of them and maybe even letting the whole thing crash.

I don't know if I'm just being pissy about it or if my feelings are warranted. My actions going forward may be too drastic or maybe just what needs to be done. The other half of this partnership (remember. me and the guitarist/vocalist have been doing this together for the last 9 years) feels like we should do the gig without the other guy, just the 3 of us(includes the drummer). I don't want to. I feel this is a 4 piece band and we play in front of an audience as a 4 piece. Thats it. My partner obviously thinks this is nothing to worry about and doesn't want to change anything. Play the gig. Don't look for another guitarist.
Anyone have a thought as to what I should do? I have decided that I'ts best for me to cancel the gig he isn't going to be at but maybe I should entertain some thoughts about this from the Talkbass community first.

First, twice in a year sucks but isn't horrendous, so you are overreacting a bit. Nothing to be emotional about. Second, subs man. All the band leaders i know have a sub list for situations exactly like this. As long as they don't get a last minute cancellation they can generally find a sub still make the gig happen. And yes, do the gig without him if needed. There is nothing wrong with that. A second guitarist/backing vocalist is never a necessity to make a gig happen.

Edit: didn't realize no pay, so subs won't work. in which case do the gig without the guy.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I read the whole thing and only caught where OP said it was low or no pay. Then a figure of $200 came up. Single paragraph posting but looked to the first gig they did but could be this gig.

If this gig is $200 it isn't a total kick in the teeth. Easy to get a sub if everyone else played for petrol money.

 

[3Liter]

besides, you're playing a bar gig, and often the audiences aren't picky. i've seen bands i would never be a part of play, get people up and dancing and when each song was done, get enthusiastic applause. one local band had a 10+ residency at a very large bar, and they never improved - the drummer would mess up beats here and there, guitar would hit obvious wrong notes, bass player would speed up, the singer would come in late, but people loved them and would come out every week to see them. so i'd say that band fulfilled their main functions - they brought drinkers to the club, kept them happy and gave them a great time.

and isn't that at least a big part of the point?

How is this even possible? You'd almost get better without even trying!


Separately, some of the mercinaryness of this board amazes me. "if there's no money...eff those guys". Heck, I rehearse my own band's material so that I sound better to the guys in the band, even at an advanced hobby level. My commitment is to them first and then I worry about money. If we wanted to play and the drummer flaked we couldn't do it, so his commitment should be to us. A bass player the same way. This is a little different as it's a rhythm guitar, but it seems like a lot of bass players her would treat it the same way...not paying, eff em.

 

[oZZma]

Separately, some of the mercinaryness of this board amazes me. "if there's no money...eff those guys".

Yeah I was amazed too.
I tend to forget that 99% of the music out there is made for the sleaziest reasons.

Heck, I rehearse my own band's material so that I sound better to the guys in the band, even at an advanced hobby level. My commitment is to them first and then I worry about money.

I am a "hobbyist" (mediocre player, mediocre writer, not gigging) but I take the band and the music we make so damn seriously I'm taking a 800 km ride every weekend only to reharse. I must be really stupid because there's no money there. Actually, I'm spending them.

 

[QweziRider]

...even at an advanced hobby level. My commitment is to them first and then I worry about money.

That's the difference between a hobby and those of us making our living at this. It's not a case of "eff 'em", it's that we don't allocate time to commit to something that doesn't pay.

 

[JimmyM]

Yeah I was amazed too.
I tend to forget that 99% of the music out there is made for the sleaziest reasons.

Glad you're here to save us all

The odds of making any real money with music are slightly better than winning Lotto and getting hit by lightning on the same day. The road to stardom is littered with people who couldn't make $5000 a year playing music, and even the top names have had to sleep on floors and travel in station wagons and count every penny. Meanwhile, folks like you think it's the easiest thing in the world to write songs that sell to idiots and kick back and watch the checks roll in. There is nothing at all easy about making money with music, and it's a hell of a lot harder to write a hit song than it is to write one that nobody cares about. So those who have found a way to make money with it deserve respect, not scorn. Doesn't mean you have to like their music, but it's such a ridiculous idea that it's so easy to become a sleazy mercenary and make money with music.

 

[JimmyM]

Separately, some of the mercinaryness of this board amazes me. "if there's no money...eff those guys".

Pretty much, yeah. I am well past my rock-star "sell-by" date, I have a life, and I don't have time to waste in someone's vanity project that does nothing for me except cost me money.

 

[Ronzo]

Was the rhythm player told about the “gig” before it was booked? Or did the OP book the “gig”, and then tell the band?

Big difference for me if the date was booked without checking everybody’s availability. I’ve read the first three pages, and I’m not certain of the circumstances.