Memorizing The Keys

[Rib 13]

I don’t see any boxes!

View attachment 4862257

In all seriousness, while I get the intuitive simplicity of using geometric patterns, it doesn’t really help you when it comes to knowing which note to grab in an instant when you’re playing anything but the root - especially when that right note isn’t really in the scale.

Plus, this is how you end up with guitar players saying they want to play a song in D#.

Whatever (major) key it's in, I apply Ionian to it, and everything falls into place relative. I use the modes as a skeleton road map and safety net, always wary of accidentals. That's how I do it

 

[SteveCS]

I don’t see any boxes!

I can see one big box

 

[groooooove]

I was wondering if someone can give me insight into this. I use the circle of fifths to make sense of the keys but remembering which have how many flats and sharps is difficult.

Thank you !

i hate when people come off like "ignore everyone, i'm right.."

but as a professional music educator i really feel this way

key signatures are supposed to be functional knowledge, not bullet points.

what i mean by this is: if i see something in F minor, (four flats) i don't really have to think about it. i can see the music and "just tell" that it's in that key. I remember hearing a professor of mine say this and i thought he was either remarkably skilled or lying. turns out i just stunk at the time.

every key will have a feel, or instrumental characteristics. Db major is "gross" to play on a violin, G major is comfortable for upright basses, and so on. there will be very specific reasons why certain keys feel certain ways. leading tones in Ab major (G natural) on an upright bass can be played as a harmonic, and that gives that register of the instrument in that key a certain feel.

anyway..

if you can figure out a key using the circle of fifths, or other tricks, thats very helpful and important.

once you've identified "okay, there are 5 sharps, this is B major" the next step is to learn that music. actually apply that information to the music you are learning or studying. spend time with the key (via actual music.) the next time something in that key pops up, the familiarities will hopefully appear and you'll be on your way towards "This key feels/sounds/is like this." The bullet point of what those 5 sharps are is way less important than knowing what it feels like to play in that key.

honestly, i think a lot of music educators put emphasis on this way too early. it's not that important. My violin students, by the end of 6th grade (their third year) distinctly and instinctively know the "feel" as well as the "bullet points" of the keys they've studied. At that age it'll be just D major, G major, possibly E minor and B minor, advanced kids will know C. I don't care if they can rattle off other keys and all that.

knowing all 30 of them will come in time. you have to play a lot of music before encountering all of them enough times to intuitively know it. I suppose my argument is based on this principal that you only need to know a given key if you are playing music in it frequently enough to have it memorized. Many hobbyists that play in rock bands will never play in certain keys, but they'll know E major inside and out. that's totally fine.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

agree! write them out and memorize them - it ain't rocket surgery.

True! It’s pure academia and should be approached that way.

 

[ryco]

For Major keys one is either raising the perfect fourth a half step to become the Maj 7 of the new key a fifth away;
or lowering the major seventh a half step to become the perfect fourth of the new key whose root is a fourth away.

That's how I think of it. But it's all automatic now after 50+ years - heck, it was automatic after a semester of high school theory class.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

key signatures are supposed to be functional knowledge, not bullet points.

--- snip---

every key will have a feel, or instrumental characteristics. Db major is "gross" to play on a violin, G major is comfortable for upright basses, and so on. there will be very specific reasons why certain keys feel certain ways. leading tones in Ab major (G natural) on an upright bass can be played as a harmonic, and that gives that register of the instrument in that key a certain feel.

anyway..

if you can figure out a key using the circle of fifths, or other tricks, thats very helpful and important.

Interesting post that makes much sense to me in hindsight!

I had it attempted to be drilled into me via study 'till you drop and keyboard visualization methods, but it really didn't make sense to me until I started studying with my instrument in my hand. Studying with the bass also helped me more easily memorize the entire fret board, as well as scale, chord, and arpeggio shapes early on.

I'm not a music major, but I was fortunate to take some music theory as electives, greatly expanding my working knowledge of theory.

 

[g-dude]

There's also something to be said for buying a keyboard of suitable size.

Start by playing the pentachord for C major - C D E F G - up and down, and then hit the 1-3-5-3-1. Move up a whole step, do the same thing. You'll recognize this as that melody you hear people using to warm up their voice.

Do this a WHOLE bunch, and then start doing it moving up by a half step.

Once you get comfy there, start by playing the two tetrachords for C major (use four fingers of each hand): C-D-E-F and G-A-B-C. It's the same pattern for each. Practice that and start moving it up in whole steps, and then later in half steps.

Finally, work on playing a scale with your right hand. Going thumb-index-middle <slip your thumb under> - thumb-index-middle-ring-pinky. Reverse it starting with your pinky, but instead of sliding your thumb under, your middle finger will come over your thumb. Do that up and down like above.

If you practice your scales on the keyboard, you'll really learn the note names.

By the same token, you can also practice your scales on the bass, call out note names, and then do variations where you work your way up the scale a small group of notes at a time and other such little games.

 

[dreamadream99]

Step one: memorize the order of sharps and flats. Each is the reverse of the other.
Step two: remember the following two systems:

1. Sharps - The last sharp in the key signature is a half step below the name of the key.
2. Flats - The second to last flat is the name of the key. (When there is only one flat — B-flat — just remember that’s the key of F)

 

[JRA]

I cannot remember how I learned it. It is just there.

same.

 

[HolmeBass]

Not every brain works the same way, and everyone'e learning preferences are unique. My preference, because it underpins true understanding over rote memorisation, includes seeing connections and derivations from first principles. So that video, whilst effective, leaves a gap.

Here is how I was taught to deduce, not remember, the order of accidentals:

The major scale is constructed from 2 identical 'Tetrachords', each consisting of a tone/tone/semitone (W W H) and separated by a tone (W)

Consider the C Major scale
View attachment 4861880
and split it into these tetrachords
1: C, D, E, F
2: G, A, B, C
View attachment 4861881

Now take the second tetrachord, G, A, B, C, and put the first one on top. Notice how, in order to maintain the tone/tone/semitone order of intervals it is necessary to add an accidental to the new leading tone - the F from C becomes F# in G:
View attachment 4861883
Take that accidental and put it in the key signature:
View attachment 4861893
Continue in similar fashion, so starting on D this time:
View attachment 4861894
becomes...
View attachment 4861895
and so on. In the case of #, see how it is always the leading tone that gets the new accidental. See also how, for each additional '#' the new Tonic is the Dominant (5th) of the previous key. Hence the name - Cycle (or circle) of 5ths.

A similar process applies to the 'flat' keys, but here the process acts in reverse, so the new accidental is applied to the leading tone of the starting key, then transpose the whole lot down a 5th, which is the same as up a 4th, hence the name - cycle of 4ths. View attachment 4861897
Following this proces is it easy to see how C becomes F becomes Bb and so on through the cycle of 4ths.

Armed with this knowledge you don't need to remember by rote. If you forget or you are not sure, you can work it out for yourself at any time. Do this enough times and you end up with knowledge supported by understanding, which is better, IMHO, than a bunch of fading memories.
YMMV

This is great!

I use the major scale, and just eyeball the accidentals. I have memorized the standard flat and sharp keys after years of playing, but am always working out how I want to go on F#/Gb major and C#/Db major.

 

[J Wilson]

This was WAY more important when I played keyboards, as the more flats or sharps, fingering got different and harder (which is why electric keyboards with that itty-bitty TRANSPOSE buttons were a God-send for some). Playing in C-major is WAY different than C#-major on a keyboard.

Once I started playing bass (particularly fives) and playing lots of country off number charts, it didn't matter much at all. All I needed was the key we were in, than whatever scale(s) that came up, you just shifted the chord shapes up or down the fingerboard: No Black Keys !

When I needed to remember, I'd think of the Circle of Sharps or Flats, and every 'step' around the circle, I'd simply add one more sharp or flat.

 

[bassGtar]

Just simply write them all out, one by one, maybe make flash cards, and just study study study. It’s like when you had to memorize your multiplication tables- or even the alphabet. Constant repetition is key (no pun intended).

I like this ^^^, and I like the idea of playing the major scale in all keys, along the circle of 4ths (and 5ths) while saying the note names. At the end of the day, I wanted to be comfortable working with all the notes in the key, ascending and descending, not just the notes with accidentals.

 

[g-dude]

The most important thing you can do is play jazz.

That way, you’re never more than a half step away from a note that works…or you can just play another note that makes your mistake correct.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

...FCGDAEB and BEADGCF.

If the need is purely to memorise, then for a bass player, wouldn't the simplest way be to memorise that BEADG are open strings on a 5-string bass with CF on the far end? Basing it on something already easily recalled is efficient.

 

[themickster]

I was wondering if someone can give me insight into this. I use the circle of fifths to make sense of the keys but remembering which have how many flats and sharps is difficult.

Thank you !

Some might find it a 'useful coincidence' that the 'sharp-count' corresponds to the string number and open string notes on a 5-string bass.

I hadn’t seen that

 

[BigJohnAZ]

I do it a different way because I don't play enough to ingrain It in my gray matter. I use the fretboard to decipher the key.

I'm looking at the fretboard in my mind, one sharp, I know that C is A string, 3rd fret. I drop down one string and I see G (one sharp). 2 sharps, I now go back up to A string, then up 2 frets to D (2 sharps). 3 sharps,drop down to E string to A (3 sharps). I do the 2 fret up, one string down zig zag in my mind.

For flats I start on E string 7th fret C and zig zag over and down from there. 1 flat, up 1 string to F (1 flat). 2 flats, 2 frets back towards the nut and down 1 string to B flat (2 flats). 3 flats , up 1 string to E flat (3 flats). Rinse and repeat.

I could do the counting thing, but I can zag zag faster in my mind lol

 

[Slevage]

Carol Kaye’s method books have exercises
In all keys. I’m sure there are other books too.

I’m a strong advocate for learning to READ (stand notation) exercises as you play them. Looking at a key signature and a time signature is a great tool for learning.

 

[g-dude]

Carol Kaye’s method books have exercises
In all keys. I’m sure there are other books too.

I’m a strong advocate for learning to READ (stand notation) exercises as you play them. Looking at a key signature and a time signature is a great tool for learning.

Frankly, the hardest part of sight reading for bass guitar can be the rhythms.

To make life easier, grab a copy of the Real Book in bass clef and learn to play the melodies of the more famous songs.

Then you have it to use to learn how to walk and improvise over the changes.

 

[Wannabebass]

Surprised nobody mentioned this, but for sharp keys, picture the number of pencil strokes it takes to write the letter. Eg, you can write a G with one pencil stroke, therefore 1 flat. A D takes 2 strokes, therefore 2 flats. A has 3 lines, E has 4, etc. falls apart a bit after that, but it got me started. Shout out to “Music Student 101” for teaching me that- it is a truly fantastic podcast!

 

[Wannabebass]

Not every brain works the same way, and everyone'e learning preferences are unique. My preference, because it underpins true understanding over rote memorisation, includes seeing connections and derivations from first principles. So that video, whilst effective, leaves a gap.

Here is how I was taught to deduce, not remember, the order of accidentals:

The major scale is constructed from 2 identical 'Tetrachords', each consisting of a tone/tone/semitone (W W H) and separated by a tone (W)

Consider the C Major scale
View attachment 4861880
and split it into these tetrachords
1: C, D, E, F
2: G, A, B, C
View attachment 4861881

Now take the second tetrachord, G, A, B, C, and put the first one on top. Notice how, in order to maintain the tone/tone/semitone order of intervals it is necessary to add an accidental to the new leading tone - the F from C becomes F# in G:
View attachment 4861883
Take that accidental and put it in the key signature:
View attachment 4861893
Continue in similar fashion, so starting on D this time:
View attachment 4861894
becomes...
View attachment 4861895
and so on. In the case of #, see how it is always the leading tone that gets the new accidental. See also how, for each additional '#' the new Tonic is the Dominant (5th) of the previous key. Hence the name - Cycle (or circle) of 5ths.

A similar process applies to the 'flat' keys, but here the process acts in reverse, so the new accidental is applied to the leading tone of the starting key, then transpose the whole lot down a 5th, which is the same as up a 4th, hence the name - cycle of 4ths. View attachment 4861897
Following this proces is it easy to see how C becomes F becomes Bb and so on through the cycle of 4ths.

Armed with this knowledge you don't need to remember by rote. If you forget or you are not sure, you can work it out for yourself at any time. Do this enough times and you end up with knowledge supported by understanding, which is better, IMHO, than a bunch of fading memories.
YMMV

Gotta print and study this!