Memory Retention

[shifter]

I have a very basic/limited understanding of music theory and of late (6 months or so) I’ve made more of an effort to learn/practice scales and modes.

What I’m finding is a lack of memory retention.

I’m finding when working on songs at home, If I get stuck for what ever reason I just grab my theory book and look to the scale or mode, work out what I need to do and move on, however once I get in a practice room, or a band situation and I need to think on my feet I struggle and quite often draw a blank

It’s a little frustrating because I feel like my theory practice isn’t really working.
Is this a common thing?

Is it one of those things you just have to keep pushing until finally it just happens?

Cheers

 

[Fergie Fulton]

It is a common mistake to try and memorise theory when what you need to have is an understanding of it. If you had all the theory books around you it is easy to read from them or to quote a section to another person, but that is not the same as understanding what is being written or said. Music theory is about understanding and application.
The reality is all theory is the same, it can be taught, learned and it is quantifiable, that is why it is taught world wide.

So ask yourself this, "if so universal and so quantifiable then why the wide range of music created from only twelve notes"?

The answer is the variable in all this, that is you, the person applying it.
Whether you have learned it well or fully understood it is marginal to your belief that how you are using it is right. We all can think for ourselves so we can formulate ideas to ourselves...rightly or wrongly.
It only become critical to be correct in the use of theory when dealing with others, that is the universal bit...that we all understand the same theory.
It is your application of what you have understood to have learned rather than what you have learned.

To that end i always say find a music teacher, the difference to your learning and understanding will be raised because it will be presented to you in ways that challenge your understanding of music and so the application of the theory that accompanies it.

 

[monroe55]

I have a very basic/limited understanding of music theory and of late (6 months or so) I’ve made more of an effort to learn/practice scales and modes.

What I’m finding is a lack of memory retention.


Is it one of those things you just have to keep pushing until finally it just happens?

Cheers

Yup. Keep pushing/practicing/absorbing. 3 steps forward, 2steps back. Its as frustrating as it is rewarding, almost. It can be very discouraging to have worked something out at home to perfection only to have it crumble under your fingers as you try to execute it live on stage or with your band. Happens all the time, to professionals too!
I use a formula: Practice the phrase/song/riff to perfection at home, upside down and backwards( so to say). Then get ready to make new mistakes with it all over again as you start to play it live/within a band. After performing it a number of times live and fumbling and f*cking it up, you'll get comfortable/confident enough with it that you can play it as easy as you can push out a fart. And it'll feel just as good
Practicing with slow, focused repetition and making mistakes is painful, but to be able to express yourself freely on the instrument, priceless.
Never give up, never surrender!!!

 

[anonymous122511]

Just to add to the good advise you've already gotten:
The goal isn't to memorize but to internalize. People don't sound great ripping through blues changes because they memorized a I IV I V chord pattern. They sound good because they've internalized the sound of blues changes so deeply there's no way the can get lost or play a bad note. I could say a whole lot more but it's better you think about this and try to figure out w.tf I'm talking about yerself.

Also I'm of the school of practicing chord tones more than scales. Good bass lines are waaaaaay more often constructed from chord tones than scalar patterns. Learning the modes is one way of understanding how diatonic harmony works so scales aren't a waste of time just don't think they're necessarily gonna make for great bass parts or interesting solos 'cause most often they won't.

 

[namraj]

I have a very basic/limited understanding of music theory and of late (6 months or so) I’ve made more of an effort to learn/practice scales and modes.

What I’m finding is a lack of memory retention.

I’m finding when working on songs at home, If I get stuck for what ever reason I just grab my theory book and look to the scale or mode, work out what I need to do and move on, however once I get in a practice room, or a band situation and I need to think on my feet I struggle and quite often draw a blank

It’s a little frustrating because I feel like my theory practice isn’t really working.
Is this a common thing?

Is it one of those things you just have to keep pushing until finally it just happens?

Cheers

I have an unusually good memory, however I do still struggle without little methods.

My best tip for memorizing scales and modes is to think of them as shapes.

For example a major scale starts with the second finger on the root note, the forth finger then plays the second, the first finger on the next string up (and one fret down from the root), the second finger can then play the forth (directly above the root) and your forth finger can play the fifth (two frets up, for any scale you can use your four fingers to cover all the notes without moving hand position), it's then first finger for the sixth, third finger for the seventh and forth finger for the octave.

By moving this shape anywhere on the neck (with your second finger on the root note) you can play any major scale.

Do the same with minor and the modes and you are sorted.

 

[fearceol]

Yup. Keep pushing/practicing/absorbing. 3 steps forward, 2steps back. Its as frustrating as it is rewarding, almost. It can be very discouraging to have worked something out at home to perfection only to have it crumble under your fingers as you try to execute it live on stage or with your band. Happens all the time, to professionals too!
I use a formula: Practice the phrase/song/riff to perfection at home, upside down and backwards( so to say). Then get ready to make new mistakes with it all over again as you start to play it live/within a band. After performing it a number of times live and fumbling and f*cking it up, you'll get comfortable/confident enough with it that you can play it as easy as you can push out a fart. And it'll feel just as good
Practicing with slow, focused repetition and making mistakes is painful, but to be able to express yourself freely on the instrument, priceless.
Never give up, never surrender!!!

Why does all this seem familiar to me ?

Good post.

Also I'm of the school of practicing chord tones more than scales.

+1.

 

[rmkesler]

I have an unusually good memory, however I do still struggle without little methods.

My best tip for memorizing scales and modes is to think of them as shapes.

For example a major scale starts with the second finger on the root note, the forth finger then plays the second, the first finger on the next string up (and one fret down from the root), the second finger can then play the forth (directly above the root) and your forth finger can play the fifth (two frets up, for any scale you can use your four fingers to cover all the notes without moving hand position), it's then first finger for the sixth, third finger for the seventh and forth finger for the octave.

By moving this shape anywhere on the neck (with your second finger on the root note) you can play any major scale.

Do the same with minor and the modes and you are sorted.

I'm a pattern user myself but this won't teach you the note names, how many sharps or flats are in any given key, and which notes are sharp or flat in that key.

I always felt that bass and guitar were poor instruments for teaching oneself theory. It's too easy to slide back into playing patterns without thinking about the notes being played.

 

[shifter]

Thanks very much for your replies, some of the posts here have been very thought provoking and inspiring..

Cheers.

 

[Staccato]

Time of Day/Night studying or memorizing affects retention, a healthy diet that includes adequate protein foods, using memory devices (or reminder tricks) may help, speaking the items that are being memorized out loud, and...

repetition, repetition, repetition!

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes - keyboard to "see" theory.

Then how much theory do you need? I play Country. Country is Major, three chord dirt simple stuff. Come to think about it, so is Pop and Rock.

I play chord tones, I never take a lead break the electric guitar does all the lead breaks in our band. If I was to go melodic I'd get all kind of fish eyes from the guys. I only revert to the pentatonic when I get completely lost. So the Major pentatonic is all I really need - on stage.

All that mode stuff - I don't need any of that. Modes are good only over modal vamps and the songs we play are never written with/for modal vamps. We don't play modal music, so that is something I do not have to worry with on stage. Yes I like a droning E string and Dorian, as well as anyone, but, have no reason to do that with "Heartaches by the numbers".

So just some generic notes, roots, 5's, 8's and a 2 or 6 for passing notes and then my box pattern and some specific 3's and 7's thrown in at the right time do what I need. For example:

R-2-5-6 or R-3-5-6 for major.
R-2-5-b7 or R-b3-5-b7 for minor.​

If I see a major chord grab one of my major patterns I have stored in muscle memory.
If I see a minor chord grab one of my minor patterns I have stored in muscle memory.
Should I ever see a F#m7b5 that's the diminished chord and I just do roots or R-b3-b5-b7 which is the chord spelling for diminished chords.

The rest is gravy and does not normally come into the picture when I'm on stage. Now I love theory and really enjoy studying theory, but, with Country, I only need a little of it when I'm on stage. How much do you really need? Find that and your memory problem will be in control. Of course IMO.

Good luck.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Yes - keyboard to "see" theory.

Then how much theory do you need? I play Country. Country is Major, three chord dirt simple stuff. Come to think about it, so is Pop and Rock.

I play chord tones, I never take a lead break the electric guitar does all the lead breaks and I only revert to the pentatonic when I get completely lost. So the Major pentatonic is all I really need.

All that mode stuff - I don't need any of that. Modes are good only over modal vamps and the songs we play are never written with/for modal vamps.

So just some generic box patterns do what I need.
R-2-5-6 or R-3-5-6 for major.
R-2-5-b7 or R-b3-5-b7 for minor.
If I see a major chord grab one of my major patterns.
If I see a minor chord grab one of my minor patterns.
Should I ever see a F#m7b5 that's the diminished chord and just do roots or R-b3-b5-b7 which is the chord spelling for diminished chords.

The rest is gravy and does not normally come into the picture when I'm on stage. Now I love theory and really enjoy studing theory, but, very little of it ever follows me on stage. How much do you really need? Find that and your memory problem will be in control. Of course IMO.

Good luck.

+1 learn the theory that directly influences the music you play, then expand as you see fit. learn what is going on around you before you expand.
If theory part of the language of music then learn to talk in simple terms and understand simple ideas then build on what you have learned. Now one jumps straight to complex musical ideas without having understood the basic principal that supports it.
When you walk you had to learn to do it, that was done in small steps then to bigger and better ones. Then you learn to run, then you learn to ride a bike, skate etc,. You never think that you have to learn all the things possible to do with using your legs, only what directly affects you. You never try to understand all the things that make walking possible, from body mechanics to diet to body structure, you just walk. You can expand later on if you become a doctor, an athlete, etc when you need to understand why things are so.
And so it is with music theory, you need to understand and use what is required not what you know.


In life you learn then build on it, natural curiosity of learning supports this in us.

 

[onda'bass]

if you are practiced enough it will be there, I only shows you need to practice them more. I find students to be impatient when it come to learning. They figure if they rationalize it they know it, where actually it is not memory directly, it is muscle memory. That why you practice 8hrs a day. A wise teacher told me once " take anything you can play without thinking about IE lick solo ect... don't play it for a month and still come back nail it in one try kinda of stuff. how long did you play it for? months ? years" Good luck and keep sheddin'

 

[MalcolmAmos]

How much snow did you get? It's going to hit 72 F today, one of my great memories, from being "up North", was when I sold my snow blower to the next door neighbor.

Do not plan on going North of the Red River, except on vacation, for the rest of my days..... Now a house on the cape would be fine for the summer.

 

[flypejose]

All of what's been said is true.

My experience in memorizing music theory has been similar to when I was learning English. I was born and grew up in a French speaking country. But I didn’t retain much of all the mandatory academic English I learned during high school. Probably because I had no pressure to use it at the time. But my English improved dramatically only when I started studying and working here in the US.

 

[subexpression]

Time of Day/Night studying or memorizing affects retention, a healthy diet that includes adequate protein foods, using memory devices (or reminder tricks) may help, speaking the items that are being memorized out loud, and...

repetition, repetition, repetition!

I couldn't agree more!
The amount of sleep, time of day, and diet are of extreme importance when developing fine motor skills and the creation of neural pathways.
To understand the biological process involved in learning, we have to know how the brain forms neural pathways during practice. The formation of new memories is dependent upon the raw materials you ingest...Omega 3 fatty acids, foods high in antioxidants, complex carbohydrates, fiber and lots of water.
Poor diet can result in learning difficulties, loss of interest, low attention span, and many other mental roadblocks.

When you practice, you must also include rest time. With each exercise or drill, you have requested that your brain develop stronger neural pathways between your motor cortex, auditory cortex and temporal lobe, among others. If your brain is going to carry out these commands and begin building new connections, it needs raw materials and rest!

Extra practice won't help if the brain is not finished establishing the last practice session's work in new neural pathways. The growth is slow, but constant. You can't rush it! You must rest.

My favorite method which works great for me is the 10-on/10-off method. Practice for 10 minutes, rest for 10 minutes. It's not a waste of time. Put it to the test and find out for yourself

 

[bassinplace]

I study my theory very dilligently when I'm at home alone practicing.

When I'm in a playing situation I let all that stuff go and just feel it. Some stuff works, some doesn't. That's how you learn.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Thanks very much for your replies, some of the posts here have been very thought provoking and inspiring..

Cheers.

repetition....ad infinum....what i do is work on my chord tones regularly.....i do the chords from 4 diationic scales a day,3 days covers all 12......thats a total of 28 chords a day.....3 minutes per a day,and say the notes out loud as i go......once you get them down you can add chords like ninths,dims etc,and reduce the time on the diatonic chords to a minute or so....use them with friedlands books and you'll find that you'll recall more and more in time.....borrow the wife's egg timer for the three minute thing....