Mesa 410 v Barefaced SuperTwin T

[JTacker]

I bought the new Ampeg Venture line when it came out and I'm not in love with it. I haven't been gigging a whole lot in the last few years, but that's starting to change. I have the 210 and 115 venture cabs. They're light and from about 30ft out they sound great, but I'm having trouble hearing myself on stage and from the crowd perspective it sounds great tonally and on the verge of being too loud. I think the mix and match was a bad plan and I'm getting some weird phasing happening up close. Either way, I'm in the market for a great one cab to rule them all. I play an active Fender PJ and I like a tighter more controlled sound. I also play a 5 string Spector, and fretless on occasion. I play a lot of rock and jam band style music, but I also dabble in modern jazz, funk, and reggae. I've boiled my choices down to the Mesa Subway 410 or the Barefaced SuperTwin T. They both are almost the exact same price and I can't make up my mind on which way to go. I'm hoping there may be someone on here with experience with one or both cabs.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Out of the two options in the thread title, both are fine cabs but I'd go for the Mesa personally.

Just throwing it out there, but have you tried scrapping the Ampeg 1x15 and just getting a matching 2x10? What you are describing is precisely why the safest bet is to get two matching cabinets. I'd give that a try first if the Ampeg 1x15 is still in the return window, but if it's passed then you may do better to just go for the Mesa.

 

[ole Jason]

I own cabs from both companies (but not those specific cabs). Out of those two I'd go with Barefaced but either would be awesome.

 

[57pbass]

I have the SUBWAY 4 x 10 cab and use it in rotation with my Bag End 15’s.
It’s easy to haul, well built and sounds great. I used both the WD8000 and the D800 and both did as advertised. I recently acquired the 800D and will be using that on the next shows we do.
I don’t have any recent experience with the Barefaced cabs but they get lots of love here on Talkbass.

 

[pisces_bass]

No wrong choice. I have a Super Twin and think of it as my do-it-all forever cab. I like that it’s a little taller than a 410 and has integrated wheels for loading. I can’t imagine being disappointed with the Mesa though.

 

[el murdoque]

I'd build a modular barefaced rig - because that's what I personally use.
You will not believe how loud these 112 barefaceds get until you experience it firsthand.
I run a Super Mini with Tweeter and a Super Compact as my 212 rig, but 90% of the time I only bring one cab, because that's enough.
My two main gigs are 80's metal and reggae.

I'd only buy a 212 barefaced cabinet if I was absolutely positive that I need a barefaced 212 rig all the time.

Anecdote: When I joined that metal band, I brought a single barefaced cab to the first rehearsal. They looked at me with pity, as if I had brought a Rumble100 combo. The Band leader offered that I could use the bass amp in the room, a Peavey MiniMega on a Hartke 4x10 cab. I said thanks, but I'm good. They looked at me like I was not entirely right in the head. I set up. We played a few notes. They asked me to turn down.

 

[NitroBobby]

i was having a hard time hearing myself on stage as well, sounds similar to what you are describing. have you tried raising the cabinets up or tilting them back a bit? my solution was to get a tilt-back 210. it's aimed more at my head now and the stage volume stays reasonable since i can hear it so much better. standing directly in front of my GK Neo 212, it was very difficult to hear the cab because it was aimed at the back of my legs. sounded great out front though.

 

[RGerhart]

I currently own a Super Twin T, and have owned a few Barefaced cabs in the past, too. I have also played through a friend's Mesa rig, but it was a 2X15 Subway model. I think both companies make great products, so unfortunately it's more up to personal taste than anything. Obviously if you can play through either of them, that's the way to go.

 

[JTacker]

i was having a hard time hearing myself on stage as well, sounds similar to what you are describing. have you tried raising the cabinets up or tilting them back a bit? my solution was to get a tilt-back 210. it's aimed more at my head now and the stage volume stays reasonable since i can hear it so much better. standing directly in front of my GK Neo 212, it was very difficult to hear the cab because it was aimed at the back of my legs. sounded great out front though.

I have an ampeg ba-210 v2 that I love the sound of, but she needs some work. Maybe I'll just throw it on top of the 2x10 I already have for the time being and see if that solves my conundrum instead of dropping 2k on a new cab.

 

[HotelX]

Super Twin wins because it has wheels

 

[MCF]

Relatively light with amazing sound. You won’t be disappointed.

 

[NitroBobby]

I have an ampeg ba-210 v2 that I love the sound of, but she needs some work. Maybe I'll just throw it on top of the 2x10 I already have for the time being and see if that solves my conundrum instead of dropping 2k on a new cab.

that should get it up closer to head level.

you could also look at a tilt back amp stand to aim it up at your head. Sweetwater has them from like $45-90 depending on the model. more secure than a block of wood as a kickstand. which i have also seen.

 

[gtirard]

I have an ampeg ba-210 v2 that I love the sound of, but she needs some work. Maybe I'll just throw it on top of the 2x10 I already have for the time being and see if that solves my conundrum instead of dropping 2k on a new cab.

On the one hand, it's a good idea because if you are loud for the audience but can hardly hear yourself, it's probably more a problem of distance and angle from you to the cab, so raising the cab closer to ear level might help (you could also use a tilt back stand as others have suggested).

On the other hand, when I compare my Barefaced cab to the Ampeg cabs I'm using in rehearsal studios, it's night and day. Not only efficiency, but also dispersion, and accuracy. And I've no doubt the Mesa 410 also plays in a completely different league. And, from my experience, the quality of the cab is at least as important as the head, maybe more. So if you could invest in a "buy once cry once" cab, be it a Barefaced or a Mesa, not only could you hear yourself better, but you would also improve your tone a lot (more detailed, better dynamics etc.)

 

[Element Zero]

Super Twin wins because it has wheels

So does the Mesa lol

 

[Hamrlik]

I have no experience with the Mesa but owned the BF Super Twin. I know I'm in the minority, but given the cost I found the Super Twin considerably underwhelming. Doesn't project any better than some "off the shelf" cabs I've owned and is worse compared to a Greenboy Fearless, Dually and Audiokinesis Thunderchild I owned. I also didn't find any big low end and extension available with the ST. Even significantly boosting 80-120hz didn't open it up much. That may actually be fine given your stated tone goals. The best thing I can say about it is that it's a very neutral sounding cab and crazy light.

IF those are the only two cabs you're considering, and given what you're currently using, I'd go with the Mesa. I'd personally consider a 212 of some kind (Mesa, Genzler or GK) and believe they'd outperform those Venture cabs. On paper their specs don't look very promising.

Best of luck!

 

[JTacker]

I have no experience with the Mesa but owned the BF Super Twin. I know I'm in the minority, but given the cost I found the Super Twin considerably underwhelming. Doesn't project any better than some "off the shelf" cabs I've owned and is worse compared to a Greenboy Fearless, Dually and Audiokinesis Thunderchild I owned. I also didn't find any big low end and extension available with the ST. Even significantly boosting 80-120hz didn't open it up much. That may actually be fine given your stated tone goals. The best thing I can say about it is that it's a very neutral sounding cab and crazy light.

IF those are the only two cabs you're considering, and given what you're currently using, I'd go with the Mesa. I'd personally consider a 212 of some kind (Mesa, Genzler or GK) and believe they'd outperform those Venture cabs. On paper their specs don't look very promising.

Best of luck!

Is there any particular reason you lab to a 2x12 over a 4x10?

 

[JTacker]

I currently own a Super Twin T, and have owned a few Barefaced cabs in the past, too. I have also played through a friend's Mesa rig, but it was a 2X15 Subway model. I think both companies make great products, so unfortunately it's more up to personal taste than anything. Obviously if you can play through either of them, that's the way to go.

Could you clarify what you mean by the difference in taste? There's a few Mesa dealers near me but I have no access to barefaced to be able to make any clear distinction.

 

[RGerhart]

Could you clarify what you mean by the difference in taste? There's a few Mesa dealers near me but I have no access to barefaced to be able to make any clear distinction.

By taste, I mean they are both great cabs, but sound different. P basses sound great, but so do J basses—which one is for you? Same situation. Or just get both.

 

[monsterthompson]

Could you clarify what you mean by the difference in taste? There's a few Mesa dealers near me but I have no access to barefaced to be able to make any clear distinction.

I suspect you’re going to get noticeably different voicing out of each cab. The ST is designed to be transparent and similar to a FRFR experience. I have a pair of BB2 cabs and used them as a PA for certain gigs. I ran a variety of synths and samples and other playback material through them. I also used a single BB2 for jam sessions playing bass. The low end on the BB2 is big, almost pillowy, though not muddy or overwhelming (assuming you don’t EQ it that way). I think the bigger ST cab will be similar if not even bigger in the deep lows.

I haven’t played a Mesa Subway 410 in person, though I have briefly tried some Two Notes Opus presets from the Mesa IR. I expect you’re going to get a very different character from the 410, with a more baked-in character (bumps and cuts) in the mids. I suspect the 410 might have a tighter sound in the lows, while the ST will get a bigger, more extended bass response. I’d guess that the 410 might if anything have more of a low-mid bump than a deep low bump. I’m out of my element here and these are just guesses. It’s been years since I played Mesa cabs and I owned Powerhouse models, not Subways.

If you’ve got a shop nearby where you can test a Mesa and it scratches the itch, then get it and don’t worry about what could be with the Barefaced. If you’ve find the Mesa sound isn’t doing it for you, then revisit the Barefaced. Each should be plenty loud for most gigs. If you’re really sensitive to weight, then maybe the 15 pound difference tilts things in the Barefaced direction.

 

[Element Zero]

Can only comment on the Mesa since I’ve owned one for 6 or so years now. It’s excellent. It IS tight, defined, and controlled low end with GREAT punch in the mids and it will take a huge amount of low end should you want it to.

Smooth but with amazing authority and (with extreme ease I might add) can slice everyone’s heads off IF one is so inclined to do so.