Mesa Boogie Bass 400 or 400+ ??

[youngnicholas]

does anybody know the difference between the two?
from what i've been able to find,
i know they both are no longer being made,
and it seems like they stopped making the 400 long before they stopped making the 400+
is the 400+ better? does it have more options?

 

[Red Planet]

First off do a search.

400+ uses 12 power tubes 400 uses 6.

400+ has one extra slider on the GEQ.

400+ has more power.

I like the 400 better and I have owned several of both.

Both are heavy and both sound good IMO.

 

[grifff]

First off do a search.

400+ uses 12 power tubes 400 uses 6.

400+ has one extra slider on the GEQ.

400+ has more power.

I like the 400 better and I have owned several of both.

Both are heavy and both sound good IMO.

End of discussion. Great response.

 

[youngnicholas]

hey dudes, thanks a ton!
i think i read something about the 400+ having a gain or "fuzz" channel,
is that true?
do they both have that?


and by the way, i have done a couple searches
i can always find info on the 400+,
but i can't find much on the 400
plus 99% of the sites are pretty sketchy
i'd much rather get my info from people on here who actually know what they're talking about

 

[K-Funk]

The 400 and 400+ have the same preamp, no distortion circuits. The 400 used six 6550's originally, but they later switched to 6L6's. It also only put out around 180 watts. The 400+ uses twelve 6L6's and puts out almost 300 watts, more like 280.

I've owned two 400+'s and one 400; I prefer the 400+ for the detachable power cable, extra power, and the sheer coolness of having a forest of tubes It also sounds a little punchier to me.

 

[Dave M]

...400+ has more power. ...

Really? How so?
I ask because I was under the impression (which could be wrong ) that they were both 300W RMS amps. I can see how each one could either exceed or fall short of 300, depending on operating parameters. Does Mesa claim more output for the 400+?

 

[youngnicholas]

The 400 and 400+ have the same preamp, no distortion circuits. The 400 used six 6550's originally, but they later switched to 6L6's. It also only put out around 180 watts. The 400+ uses twelve 6L6's and puts out almost 300 watts, more like 280.

I've owned two 400+'s and one 400; I prefer the 400+ for the detachable power cable, extra power, and the sheer coolness of having a forest of tubes It also sounds a little punchier to me.

thanks brother!
i only ask because i've found some 400's for sale,
usually for a grand or even less,
which is enticing.
but i also have a friend that runs a peavey 5150 to a mesa 400+
and it's crazy good

anyway, i'm pretty sure the + is the way to go

 

[K-Funk]

Really? How so?
I ask because I was under the impression (which could be wrong ) that they were both 300W RMS amps. I can see how each one could either exceed or fall short of 300, depending on operating parameters. Does Mesa claim more output for the 400+?

The 400 puts out 180 watts due to a lower plate voltage. With 6550's you might get up to 200 watts, but that's it. The 400+ puts out nearly 300 watts. Even so, it's not a massive volume difference, because doubling the wattage only increases volume by, what, 3db?

 

[Red Planet]

Yes it takes 10 times the power to double the loudness.


See above for wattage differences.

Dang good Amps no doubt.

 

[Fealach]

The 400 and 400+ have the same preamp, no distortion circuits. The 400 used six 6550's originally, but they later switched to 6L6's. It also only put out around 180 watts. The 400+ uses twelve 6L6's and puts out almost 300 watts, more like 280.

I've owned two 400+'s and one 400; I prefer the 400+ for the detachable power cable, extra power, and the sheer coolness of having a forest of tubes It also sounds a little punchier to me.

My 400+ did not have a detachable power cord, so I'm guessing only the newer ones did.

With 6550 power tubes there isn't much of a sound difference between the two. With 6L6 tubes, a 400 will distort more and more as it is turned up, but it doesn't have a distortion channel.

 

[Dave M]

The 400 puts out 180 watts due to a lower plate voltage. With 6550's you might get up to 200 watts, but that's it.

Damn, how low is the Vp? That seems like a waste of a good sextet of 6550s?

The 400+ puts out nearly 300 watts.

Funny, even now Mesa's website claims 500 (@ 2 ohms), but it does not specify if it's RMS. I'd love to see 500 watts from a sextet of 6550s.

Even so, it's not a massive volume difference, because doubling the wattage only increases volume by, what, 3db?

Yes, but a massive volume difference isn't what I expect with the higher wattage in this case.

It cracks me up how some people get their panties in a bunch over high power outputs. But, just because you might have high power does not necessarily mean you're trying to blow the house down. The headroom and feel are what can be significant. And, plate voltage and power supply in a tube amp play a huge role in this, along with corresponding power. That's what I like.