Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10

[MarkA]

I had a Walkabout, but it's been awhile. I know that I tried running the DI into a poweramp. Can't recall if I did that with the effects send. DI-to-poweramp was good, but not the same. I'm not sure where in the circuit the FX loop is.

Here's a thought, though, based on two premises: 1) D.I. out is post-everything 2) Walkabout character, sonically and in terms of feel, is based on how hard the power section is being pushed (this has been discussed here) and, maybe, on a somewhat tube-amp-like interaction with a reactive speaker load? (This last part I'm unsure of, but I'd guess, tube-amp-like or no, there is still some difference between how it would react to speakers vs. a simple power-soak, which would in-turn affect the signal to the D.I..)

In any case, my proposal is this: If running the WA with an 8 Ohm 1x12 atop a 4 Ohm 2x12 (or similar setup), let the WA drive the 8 Ohm cab and a separate poweramp (driven by the DI or the effects send, if suitable) drive the other cab. That will let the Walkabout "work" a bit without being responsible for all the volume or having to be pushed into the "wool" zone (unless you want that).

If my hunch is right, that'll translate some more of the WA vibe to the slaved amp. Or not. Downside -- would require two or more cabs. @agedhorse: What do you think, Andy -- is there something to this, or am I off-base? If someone already has a poweramp (or another amp they can slave), I figure it's worth a shot.

Another option to consider was suggested by @bucephylus in @pfschim's gear-reflection and asceticism thread. Namely, that a post-everything preamp output be retro-fitted to a Walkabout, if possible. (Or included in the Jogabout, Roustabout, or whatever a Walkabout successor might be called, if one comes to be.)

 

[agedhorse]

Additional amp and cab(s) would extend the maximum volume while retaining the WA vibe. Not a practical solution for many, but certainly for some.

 

[MarkA]

Additional amp and cab(s) would extend the maximum volume while retaining the WA vibe. Not a practical solution for many, but certainly for some.

Yeah, I'm not sure that I'd want to do it, myself, though I've carried some heavier amps around.

I'm wondering, for those talking about running their WA as a pre into a poweramp anyway, if letting the WA drive one of the cabs would somehow get more of the "vibe" through to the poweramp -- would the interaction with the speaker affect what's coming out of the DI differently than just turning up the master, with no cab attached?

 

[pfschim]

Yeah, I'm not sure that I'd want to do it, myself, though I've carried some heavier amps around.

I'm wondering, for those talking about running their WA as a pre into a poweramp anyway, if letting the WA drive one of the cabs would somehow get more of the "vibe" through to the poweramp -- would the interaction with the speaker affect what's coming out of the DI differently than just turning up the master, with no cab attached?

amp asceticism .. funny

I'll give this a try today if I get some time between the 4th festivities and by BBQ assignments.
I totally get the idea. WA flavored DI to poweramp (in my case the D800+ or Demeter) drives one cab. WA drives the other cab as usual.

worth a shot.

 

[pfschim]

another comment on the WA DI to poweramp thing.
I set this up with the D800+ and my Demeter VTBP-M-800DJ.
The version with the D800+ still seemed to retain some of the D800+ flavor (which I kind of think of as a Carbine pre flavor).
Oddly, the set-up using the Demeter actually sounded more like the Walkabout to my ears.

neither preamps should have been in the mix .. this was certainly true of the D800+, but the Demeter Presence control and Mode (dark/normal/bright) switch was clearly "in the mix"

this is not significant to me as the D800+ still has a wider set a features available, not the least of which is stable 2ohm operation.

happy 4th

 

[Kukulkan61]

I have a simple solution to all this gibberish...
Put a mic in front of your WA driven cab and go out f PA...

 

[Al Kraft]

I have a simple solution to all this gibberish...
Put a mic in front of your WA driven cab and go out f PA...

That works!

 

[MarkA]

I have a simple solution to all this gibberish...
Put a mic in front of your WA driven cab and go out f PA...

You can mic the cab with any amp you like, for that matter, as far as FOH is concerned. I haven't done that -- maybe I should try. (Actually, not entirely true -- I was miced in a pit for a musical, which surprised me -- I wonder if there were other times?) There are worthwhile arguments to be made for it.

For those trying to get more "Walkabout vibe" to their stage rigs at higher, clean volumes, though, I'm not sure that will help.

@pfschim, when I ran into the effects return of my HPB-1 800D, the Presence control was still in the circuit. The rest of the EQ was not. When I noticed this, I asked James Demeter about this and he confirmed it. I was running a Jule Monique into it, sometimes, and actually preferred it this way with that pre. Maybe your amp is similar in that regard.

For what it's worth, I've noticed differences running into the power amp inputs of various amps and running through different poweramps, even when input sensitivity and impedance specs were similar. Hard to isolate, with certainty, a specific cause for those differences, but there you go.

 

[pfschim]

I had a Walkabout, but it's been awhile. I know that I tried running the DI into a poweramp. Can't recall if I did that with the effects send. DI-to-poweramp was good, but not the same. I'm not sure where in the circuit the FX loop is.

Here's a thought, though, based on two premises: 1) D.I. out is post-everything 2) Walkabout character, sonically and in terms of feel, is based on how hard the power section is being pushed (this has been discussed here) and, maybe, on a somewhat tube-amp-like interaction with a reactive speaker load? (This last part I'm unsure of, but I'd guess, tube-amp-like or no, there is still some difference between how it would react to speakers vs. a simple power-soak, which would in-turn affect the signal to the D.I..)

In any case, my proposal is this: If running the WA with an 8 Ohm 1x12 atop a 4 Ohm 2x12 (or similar setup), let the WA drive the 8 Ohm cab and a separate poweramp (driven by the DI or the effects send, if suitable) drive the other cab. That will let the Walkabout "work" a bit without being responsible for all the volume or having to be pushed into the "wool" zone (unless you want that).

If my hunch is right, that'll translate some more of the WA vibe to the slaved amp. Or not. Downside -- would require two or more cabs. @agedhorse: What do you think, Andy -- is there something to this, or am I off-base? If someone already has a poweramp (or another amp they can slave), I figure it's worth a shot.

Another option to consider was suggested by @bucephylus in @pfschim's gear-reflection and asceticism thread. Namely, that a post-everything preamp output be retro-fitted to a Walkabout, if possible. (Or included in the Jogabout, Roustabout, or whatever a Walkabout successor might be called, if one comes to be.)

As long as I was experimenting with running the WA DI into the D800+ and Demeter power sections, I thought I'd try MarkA's suggestion and let the WA drive one cab and "slaved" power amp drive the other cab - instead of just letting the slave amp drive both cabs. The idea is that there would be a pure WA flavor and then a WA-like flavor from the power amp.

I ran this set-up with both the Demeter and the D800+ with the WA driving an 80hm Berg CN112, and the other amp driving a 4ohm CN212.
Again, the Demeter sounded more transparently like the Walkabout whereas the D800+ retained some of its native voice (not sure how or why).

Results, as predicted, are an even more 800w Walkabout sounding rig (in fact, wouldn't it be a 965w Walkabout with the WA driving the 112 @ 8ohms ?)
This set-up provides a very big, clean and deep sound where the native Walkabout voice predominates much more than when using the WA FX send or even the WA DI into the external power amp driving both cabs. On its face, it could be more gear than many would want to mess with and it does take the WA DI out of action for driving FOH. But, both the amps I tried this with are quite small/light and really would not present much added stuff to haul to the right gig. As far as DI goes, you can do any number of things; DI from your bass, use a speaker level DI from the WA driven cab, DI from the parallel out on a VT Deluxe pedal or something similar etc.....

So, I'm pretty happy with this approach and will try it out on a gig next weekend with a power trio and see how it goes.

great suggestion MarkA

 

[MarkA]

As long as I was experimenting with running the WA DI into the D800+ and Demeter power sections, I thought I'd try MarkA's suggestion and let the WA drive one cab and "slaved" power amp drive the other cab - instead of just letting the slave amp drive both cabs. The idea is that there would be a pure WA flavor and then a WA-like flavor from the power amp.

I ran this set-up with both the Demeter and the D800+ with the WA driving an 80hm Berg CN112, and the other amp driving a 4ohm CN212.
Again, the Demeter sounded more transparently like the Walkabout whereas the D800+ retained some of its native voice (not sure how or why).

Results, as predicted, are an even more 800w Walkabout sounding rig (in fact, wouldn't it be a 965w Walkabout with the WA driving the 112 @ 8ohms ?)
This set-up provides a very big, clean and deep sound where the native Walkabout voice predominates much more than when using the WA FX send or even the WA DI into the external power amp driving both cabs. On its face, it could be more gear than many would want to mess with and it does take the WA DI out of action for driving FOH. But, both the amps I tried this with are quite small/light and really would not present much added stuff to haul to the right gig. As far as DI goes, you can do any number of things; DI from your bass, use a speaker level DI from the WA driven cab, DI from the parallel out on a VT Deluxe pedal or something similar etc.....

So, I'm pretty happy with this approach and will try it out on a gig next weekend with a power trio and see how it goes.

great suggestion MarkA

Thank you! Glad that initial results are promising. My secretary will be in touch with your people -- we accept payment in the form of bananas and protein bars.

 

[MarkA]

^^^ If the Walkabout, via its DI, is driving the D800+ or the Demeter VTBP 800D, could you use the DI on one of those amps to send a signal to FOH? As long as the effects loop is before the DI output -- and I think it is in the vast majority of amps -- a pre-EQ send from one of those should relay whatever you're feeding it from the Walkabout to FOH though, granted, the signal will have to run through additional circuitry.

If that works -- if the WA's DI will drive everything properly and I'm not missing something else -- you wouldn't need a separate DI to feed the PA and, theoretically, you'd get more Walkabout vibe there, too.

 

[pfschim]

good question on whether the DI on the D800+ or Demeter can be used in this scenario.
perhaps @agedhorse can give us an answer for the D800+

doesn't Jim D post here on TB as well ? anyone know his TB name ?

 

[bucephylus]

FWIW, etc etc.

What you are describing is almost exactly what the Demeter Minnie 800D is designed to do. Which, of course, is no more power than what your VTBP is doing. Still, might be worth trying some time, purely in the interest of rig optimization.

And, then there is the H 1600D, which seems to be even more of the business. It just never ends.

 

[agedhorse]

good question on whether the DI on the D800+ or Demeter can be used in this scenario.
perhaps @agedhorse can give us an answer for the D800+

doesn't Jim D post here on TB as well ? anyone know his TB name ?

No, because the power amp input comes after where the di in post position is sourced. (On the Subways)

 

[MarkA]

No, because the power amp input comes after where the di in post position is sourced. (On the Subways)

Andy, if an effect (chorus, octave, etc.) is placed in the loop, then, does it only go to your stage rig and not FOH? If so, is this common?

 

[pfschim]

Thank you! Glad that initial results are promising. My secretary will be in touch with your people -- we accept payment in the form of bananas and protein bars.

dang, all I got is some walnuts and mangoes

 

[MarkA]

dang, all I got is some walnuts and mangoes

That works.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

I have a simple solution to all this gibberish...
Put a mic in front of your WA driven cab and go out f PA...

As a walkabout owner I like this thread but always get bemused when it goes into the “walkabout but more watts discussion” - mic the cab, or use a more sensitive or bigger cab ... walkabout amp matched with the right cab should be more than ample for stage sound, once you get above a certain size bands I’ve been in have been doing our best to minimise stage sound in order to let the PA do the hard work and sound the best....

 

[Kukulkan61]

As a walkabout owner I like this thread but always get bemused when it goes into the “walkabout but more watts discussion” - mic the cab, or use a more sensitive or bigger cab ... walkabout amp matched with the right cab should be more than ample for stage sound, once you get above a certain size bands I’ve been in have been doing our best to minimise stage sound in order to let the PA do the hard work and sound the best....

Exactly...

 

[StayLow]

As a walkabout owner I like this thread but always get bemused when it goes into the “walkabout but more watts discussion” - mic the cab, or use a more sensitive or bigger cab ... walkabout amp matched with the right cab should be more than ample for stage sound, once you get above a certain size bands I’ve been in have been doing our best to minimise stage sound in order to let the PA do the hard work and sound the best....

I've played huge stages & places with just a Walkabout combo, properly utilizing PA.

I've had trouble discerning my notes while using a WA with two cabs in a small room with just a loud drummer and guitarist with a small tube combo.

Situations vary, and there isn't always PA.

It's not that the amp wasn't loud enough, it's that it sounds quite wild and wooly in the upper half of its output. This makes a significant portion of its volume essentially unusable for most players.

Ultimately I think it's about relatively clean headroom, not 'X' number of nominal watts.

Back in the day, the common amp solution was the M-Pulse 600. Twenty years later many are thinking there can be a newer/better amp solution; ideally a newer/better WalkAbout.

With AgedHorse so bass focused and kind in entertaining ideas & complaints, and educating, it adds much fuel to the pining fire.

The WA was probably the first serious very small & portable bass amp. That after so many years and new technologies and offerings so many gigging bassists just want something sounding and feeling as good as their WA, still in an easily portable package, says so much!