mesa m6 experience

[NOZMEDA]

Hey what's up guys. I recently bought a mesa m6 and paired it with a RR410.
I'm just posting my experience and then some questions.

I use compression in my chain and I was very disappointed to discover that the fx loop is in series with the power amp, which basically rendered my compressor inoperable due to clipping even at lower volumes. After some contemplation on what to do, I decided to try the compressor between the bass and preamp. Problem solved. It sounded perfect. I also found that I didn't really like the post EQ di signal being manipulated by the power amp. BUT these, what I initially considered to be some pretty disappointing design features, brought me to a cascading benefit that beforehand, I would never have enjoyed doing in a situation with a sound guy or something...
-Go Pre EQ, di out.
I mean c'mon this equipment is thousands of dollars and a major inconvenience to haul around right? The Spector Legend Classic 4 with kalium strings (drop G# @ 30lbs/slight neck pup roll off.) into my bbe maxcom with about *typo edit->*2.5:1 compression, *some* limiting (keeping in mind the tube gain stage), and with the sonic maximizer engaged, is ideal to send to the board for me. This sends a well regulated full range (20hz-20kHz) "pure" bass signal, still retaining some dynamic ability ,to the house or studio guy where he can set you at an appropriate level, you know you will never clip, and the fundamentals will be persistent, even, and low.

I attribute owning the m6 to changing my stance on using pre EQ di signal although it actually has nothing to do with the amp itself.

After some toying around between output gain of the compressor and input gain of the m6 I've set the compressor output to have effectively no decibel change and the m6 input gain around 12:00-1:00 in order to maintain a decently clean sound during normal play and achieve tube drive during more aggressively played parts. The EQ knobs I'm not going too deep into, bass about 9-10:00 to compensate for higher tube gain, mid about 11:00, and treble about 10:30. After several different occasions of flipping it back and forth I have the voice selector set at 1(deepest mid scoop) by default. Do not let those graphics or descriptions fool you, no setting is lacking mid tone or punch but instead increasingly louder and present up till 5. The complete signal is then put into the mesa road ready 410. The cab complements the signal. At this point I can describe the sound by saying unchy mid tone, scooped mid feel.

Now, why I'm cool with hauling around hundreds of pounds and thousands of dollars of gear just to basically plug my bass straight to the pa...
I carry an sm57 in my rack drawer. Any sound guy with the technical capability and a shred of self respect will want to use both. So what that the 57 only goes to like 60hz or something because anything lower will be present in the pre di. Now it's just up to the sound or studio guy to blend them appropriately and everyone wins.

That was how I experienced the m6 and some of my thoughts. Thanks to anyone willing to read all of this, comment, and ask or answer questions.

Questions:
Does this design actually make more sense compared to an fx loop wired in parallel? My impression is that with some higher end amps you really need to understand what you're doing to get the most out of them, rather than just sticking your plugs in the hole that says "stick that here". I can see a lot of people possibly returning their amp because they think it's defected, or maybe even posting poor reviews about their gear in error due to lack of understanding.

Does anyone know how to identify road ready models? I was under an assumption that my cab could take 600watts, but I feel like it may only be 400. The speakers start to heavily distort with the volume knob getting around noon so I don't play it like that. The impedance is set properly and I'm using correct speaker cable, so can anyone see a problem with my settings or is it just too much for that little 410?

 

[Chef]

I really like the M6. I don't use pedals or anything, so, your concerns don't effect me.
I don't mind the post eq DI as I don't use much eq.

Though you already have the M6; the on board compressor on the M9 is just outstanding.

 

[NOZMEDA]

I really like the M6. I don't use pedals or anything, so, your concerns don't effect me.
I don't mind the post eq DI as I don't use much eq.

Though you already have the M6; the on board compressor on the M9 is just outstanding.

I actually accidentally posted that before finishing so I had to edit it. It's done now.
I really wanted that m9 a while back but with the cut down from 900w down to 600w but the gragraphic EQ just wasn't worth the extra cost for me

 

[agedhorse]

Let me make a couple of general comments that apply to many amps, not just the Carbines, and not just to Mesa products

Series effects loops are almost always line level and not instrument level. They are not intended to be used with most pedals, they are generally suited to professional level audio processing such as compressors (DBX-160, 163, 166 are common) and multi-effects units that include wet/dry mix capability such as those by TC, Yamaha, Roland, Alesis, and Lexicon. These all operate at +4dBu with maximum levels around +18dBu which are a perfect match for a line level loop.

Pedals, on the other hand, are typically working with signals from -30 to 0 dBu so are best placed between the instrument and the amp's input. There are some exceptions so read the manuals, and for those pedal manufacturers that do not provide operating level information (shame on them) contact them directly to get this important information.

Regarding pre versus post DIs, often what the sound guy needs to get your sound in the house is different than what you need to get your sound on stage. His rig and room environment is different than yours.

 

[NOZMEDA]

Wow I feel like I'm talking to a rockstar! Haha. After becoming "aware", I've only had two different heads which were both ampeg and had parallel fx loops so it really threw me through a...loop...(pun intended) when I first started working with the m6. I don't use any pedals, only my rackmount bbe maxcom compressor/sonic maximizer. I wouldn't consider it a "professional" level compressor but it sounds really good. So this brings me to another question, are you saying that there may be an adjustment to make on the compressor in order to use the loop? Or since its not high end I should basically treat it as a pedal? I have the output set similar to how you'd set a pedal, where when you toggle it on and off there isn't a noticeable volume change.
I just want to be clear that I wasn't bashing the m6, the things I didn't like was only because of my own lack of experience.
I really appreciate the feedback!

 

[NOZMEDA]

Oh and another question, do you know how I can identify what model variant my rr410 is? The speakers are grey instead of blue, no speakons, and it has an 8ohm parallel jack. It's also rear ported with a horn and variable resistance for horn control. No freq xover switch. I'm just trying to find out because I don't know the power handling of the cab.

 

[agedhorse]

The BBE unit is +4dBu line level, that's why it works properly in the loop.

Regarding the speakers, you will need to call customer service, I'm not familiar enough with the older speaker line to be able to give you good info.

 

[NOZMEDA]

The BBE unit is +4dBu line level, that's why it works properly in the loop

not sure if you read it wrong or if you disagree. I was basically saying that I couldn't use the compressor in the loop because when I turn up the master volume to just an audible level, it causes the compressor input to clip.
But now that you Say the unit WILL work in the loop I'm going to have to say I had it set wrong somewhere. It's front meter shows input from -20/+6 and the manual says the max input is 21dBu. I just can't seem to understand why the signal at the send Jack is exceeding the max input of the compressor. It's gotta be over 21dBu. It doesn't seem like I should have to turn everything down in my preamp in order to get a low enough signal to be used on gear with a max input of 21dBu. I'm going to have to dig back into this. I think my problem with the loop was establishing unity gain. I'm definitely looking into this ASAP.

 

[agedhorse]

Sorry, looks like I got confused with your chain of events. I re-read the thread and it looks like I thought you started with a compressor pedal in the effects loop and then put it in front and then tried the maxcom in the loop.

The level should not be that high, and there appears to be no input level switch on the maxcom so that not the problem.

Let me look into this tomorrow and see if I can figure this out. At this point, I'm a bit puzzled.

 

[NOZMEDA]

Cool thanks! I'm also going to check into it when I get off work. I'll let you know if I find what I messed up. I should've been more clear about the device. I'm using no pedals, only the maxcom which is not just a compressor, it has a sonic maximizer built into it right before the output.

 

[NOZMEDA]

It was the unity gain. I'm an idiot. I Still don't understand why the master volume controls the fx send though. Just a little add on, it doesn't have an fx loop bypass switch but it's in the manual.