Mesa M9 Carbine Power Reduced?

[agedhorse]

Thanks @agedhorse !
So, does anybody else have this "unused circuit breaker" in their M9 Carbine? That's really strange to me, and now I'm not sure if my amp is 100% solid and safe to push it hard. Here's another photo: Invalid Link Removed

Also, this amp has 240V cheched on the rear panel. Does that mean it has 240V trafo installed? Is it totally safe to use 240V in Europe? I got this amp from UK. Does it come with 230V (or 220V) trafo too? Thanks!

Have you been using the amp all along?

I'm going to suggest that you call customer service at the factory, I am getting more rather than less confused.

 

[Jim Carr]

@Fawkesguy @Kartofell — There were a variety of modifications over the years. My advice is just play the heck out of it and keep a spare head in your car, just like always.

Mine went in twice for new transformers, added fans, slotted case, heat sinks, fuse changes, and a few other tweaks I forget. The difference between the 900 and 600 watt versions, in terms of loudness, is tiny.

If you search the M9 carbine threads for Jim Carr, you will find some details.

 

[Kartofell]

Have you been using the amp all along?

I'm going to suggest that you call customer service at the factory, I am getting more rather than less confused.

I got it used from UK just recently.. I've been using the amp only at few rehersals ..for now without any problem, but as I read here the amp had some issues (shutting down etc) so I'm a bit worried.. that's all. I wrote to customer service, but I didn't get any reply yet. They don't always answer (I guess I'm just asking stupid questions). Thanks agedhorse and Jim!

 

[agedhorse]

They will answer, but they work 4x 10's and have Friday's off.

 

[Kartofell]

My holy trinity... I love them all!

 

[Kartofell]

They will answer, but they work 4x 10's and have Friday's off.

I got the reply... Well, I wrote to Mesa customer service and also to Mesa facebook page, but neither of them couldn't be of much help regarding my questions. Even stranger thing is that I got opposing answers. So I guess Mesa customer service isn't too reliable. On FB they wasn't very keen to explain anything, just short answers and ignoring most of my questions, but the guy (Trent) at e-mail customer service tried his best to answer, so I must give him thums up for kindness (even if he couldn't give me the proper answers).

So here's the confusion…

One of my questions was:

When was my M9 Carbine amp made (I provided S/N + handwritten date on the amp), is it 600W or 900W and how do I know this?

Answers:

Mesa customer service: »This amp left Petaluma in February of 2010. It wasn't until 2013 that we started doing 600 Watt versions of the M9. I suspect you have a 900 Watt version.«

Mesa Boogie Facebook: »Your amp would be 600w, but also is a candidate for all current updates.«

Then I replied to FB and said that I got different answer from Mesa customer service, and asked them nicely if they can explain, and also asked about the updates.

Mesa Boogie Facebook: »Much of the Carbine history is hazy. However, based on your serial number - the amp is 600 watts.«

So, I asked them again in which year then Mesa started doing 600W versions of M9 and asked them to confirm in which year my M9 was made (because the info I got was conflicting), and I also asked them about which updates was done to M9.

Mesa Boogie Facebook (ignored my question and responded): »Sorry, but I don't have exact details to provide. Many thanks!«

And... »Your amp was made in early 2010.«

I replied: »So M9 carbines were 600W since 2010 an not since 2013 as Trent told me?«

Mesa Boogie Facebook: »The changes were not documented in their entirety. We would need to have the amp here to tell you for sure, but I would feel confident saying the vast majority of M9 amps are 600w. Thanks.«

And then: »I see your dealing with Trent as well, so I'll not double our time. Best regards.«

So I know the same as I knew before. Trent also couldn't tell me more. They couldn't tell me anything about the M9 upgrades (I got no info about updates at all) and about my disconnected circuit breaker as »the history of M9 is hazy«. I also got different answers about M-2000 bias setting, as »the history of M-2000 is hazy« also. These are not documented changes…

So, I guess you guys are way better source for Mesa Amps information than Mesa customer service actually. Trent is ok though (I'm just still not sure about anything I asked them). Maybe I just asked them too much stupid questions again idk.

 

[agedhorse]

I got the reply... Well, I wrote to Mesa customer service and also to Mesa facebook page, but neither of them couldn't be of much help regarding my questions. Even stranger thing is that I got opposing answers. So I guess Mesa customer service isn't too reliable. On FB they wasn't very keen to explain anything, just short answers and ignoring most of my questions, but the guy (Trent) at e-mail customer service tried his best to answer, so I must give him thums up for kindness (even if he couldn't give me the proper answers).

So here's the confusion…

One of my questions was:

When was my M9 Carbine amp made (I provided S/N + handwritten date on the amp), is it 600W or 900W and how do I know this?

Answers:

Mesa customer service: »This amp left Petaluma in February of 2010. It wasn't until 2013 that we started doing 600 Watt versions of the M9. I suspect you have a 900 Watt version.«

Mesa Boogie Facebook: »Your amp would be 600w, but also is a candidate for all current updates.«

Then I replied to FB and said that I got different answer from Mesa customer service, and asked them nicely if they can explain, and also asked about the updates.

Mesa Boogie Facebook: »Much of the Carbine history is hazy. However, based on your serial number - the amp is 600 watts.«

So, I asked them again in which year then Mesa started doing 600W versions of M9 and asked them to confirm in which year my M9 was made (because the info I got was conflicting), and I also asked them about which updates was done to M9.

Mesa Boogie Facebook (ignored my question and responded): »Sorry, but I don't have exact details to provide. Many thanks!«

And... »Your amp was made in early 2010.«

I replied: »So M9 carbines were 600W since 2010 an not since 2013 as Trent told me?«

Mesa Boogie Facebook: »The changes were not documented in their entirety. We would need to have the amp here to tell you for sure, but I would feel confident saying the vast majority of M9 amps are 600w. Thanks.«

And then: »I see your dealing with Trent as well, so I'll not double our time. Best regards.«

So I know the same as I knew before. Trent also couldn't tell me more. They couldn't tell me anything about the M9 upgrades (I got no info about updates at all) and about my disconnected circuit breaker as »the history of M9 is hazy«. I also got different answers about M-2000 bias setting, as »the history of M-2000 is hazy« also. These are not documented changes…

So, I guess you guys are way better source for Mesa Amps information than Mesa customer service actually. Trent is ok though (I'm just still not sure about anything I asked them). Maybe I just asked them too much stupid questions again idk.

The challenge here is the amp was built over a span of about 8 years, and there were quite a few changes. Some changes were because part were discontinued by suppliers, some because of better parts becoming available, some because of unexpected specification problems with the MOSFET manufacturer (there ended up being several manufacturers due to the semiconductor industry corporate buyouts over the life of the amp), and some were purely assembly changes to accommodate new machinery and production process (like RoHS) Since many products in the MI industry only have a production lifespan of a few years, these issues would not not occur nearly as often in a more typical product.

When researching a product's revision level when it has been on the market for such a long time, it becomes helpful to review pcb and metalwork assembly numbers and specific physical hardware items in order to determine where in the production cycle it might have been made, and at what point it might have been revised in a follow-up service. This is much more accurate and MUCH less time consuming than combing through (years of) paperwork ECO's (engineering change orders) as many of them are just due to manufacturing rather than revision levels.

Now Kartofell, before jumping so hard on the customer service guys, please note that you got some reasonably accurate information. These guys are not engineers, and all that information is in a heavy duty engineering format which is not what they deal with. I don't know the detailed history like the two service techs that work on these specific amps, but they reinforced the service department's need to actually see the amp in order to give you accurate info. I can give you general information that if your amp was built in early 2010, it was originally built as a 900 watt version, but most in fact were built as the "600 watt" version (or changed to, if in for service) but you should be aware that the 600 watt version has similar dynamic power to the 900 watt version which is why there is very little real world difference in maximum volume. There was a major change in the middle of 2012 due to a change of a major component manufacturer, and another change sometime in 2013 which lowered the steady state power in order to comply with the capabilities of the new semiconductors. That said, the vast majority are indeed 600 watts. The circuit breaker was used on the early domestic versions, ultimately not used on the export and later domestic versions. The only reason was to add a secondary re-settable primary OC time constant. On the export (and/or modified for export) models, there should be no connection to the circuit breaker, but the part remains so there is no hole in the chassis. Later chassis would have either a plastic plug in the hole or no hole at all.

This is the best I can do with the time I have available. Hope it helps clarify the information you received.

 

[Kartofell]

The challenge here is the amp was built over a span of about 8 years, and there were quite a few changes. Some changes were because part were discontinued by suppliers, some because of better parts becoming available, some because of unexpected specification problems with the MOSFET manufacturer (there ended up being several manufacturers due to the semiconductor industry corporate buyouts over the life of the amp), and some were purely assembly changes to accommodate new machinery and production process (like RoHS) Since many products in the MI industry only have a production lifespan of a few years, these issues would not not occur nearly as often in a more typical product.

When researching a product's revision level when it has been on the market for such a long time, it becomes helpful to review pcb and metalwork assembly numbers and specific physical hardware items in order to determine where in the production cycle it might have been made, and at what point it might have been revised in a follow-up service. This is much more accurate and MUCH less time consuming than combing through (years of) paperwork ECO's (engineering change orders) as many of them are just due to manufacturing rather than revision levels.

Now Kartofell, before jumping so hard on the customer service guys, please note that you got some reasonably accurate information. These guys are not engineers, and all that information is in a heavy duty engineering format which is not what they deal with. I don't know the detailed history like the two service techs that work on these specific amps, but they reinforced the service department's need to actually see the amp in order to give you accurate info. I can give you general information that if your amp was built in early 2010, it was originally built as a 900 watt version, but most in fact were built as the "600 watt" version (or changed to, if in for service) but you should be aware that the 600 watt version has similar dynamic power to the 900 watt version which is why there is very little real world difference in maximum volume. There was a major change in the middle of 2012 due to a change of a major component manufacturer, and another change sometime in 2013 which lowered the steady state power in order to comply with the capabilities of the new semiconductors. That said, the vast majority are indeed 600 watts. The circuit breaker was used on the early domestic versions, ultimately not used on the export and later domestic versions. The only reason was to add a secondary re-settable primary OC time constant. On the export (and/or modified for export) models, there should be no connection to the circuit breaker, but the part remains so there is no hole in the chassis. Later chassis would have either a plastic plug in the hole or no hole at all.

This is the best I can do with the time I have available. Hope it helps clarify the information you received.

Thank you @agedhorse, this explained quite a lot! I didn't want this to sound rude or anything like that. I'm a huge Mesa Boogie fan, and I respect all the employees at Mesa Boogie, as you're giving the joy out of my speakers, that keeps me going. I just got the feeling as if I'm asking something that they don't want to answer. Like it's a secret or something. Some answers for the questions that I asked would be quite simple and easily answered, but got ignored. I think you should be Mesa Boogie customer service hehe! This is what I call explaining. Thanks again!

 

[agedhorse]

I don't think your questions got ignored, but they were not easy questions given the long production life. I'm an engineer, so I understand the engineering documentation better because I speak the language. That's not something a marketing or customer service guy can be expected to understand, it's not their language.

 

[Kartofell]

@agedhorse I'm still wondering why such "secrecy" about it though. Why say "There was a major change in the middle of 2012... and another change sometime in 2013..." if you could tell which major change was it etc. Because this is what I'm interested in: Which major change was made in the middle of the 2012 etc? Which major component? Which major component manufacturer? The customer service communicated the similar way, no specific answers. Like they don't want to tell everything. Is this because you don't know exactly (but if it was a MAJOR change, I guess you should know), or is it something you shouldn't tell (for some reason), or is "the history is hazy" thing? Man, you guys must have been smokin so much weed.. everything is hazy Well, you're still making the best amps in the world! No offense & thanks for helping with info!

 

[Kartofell]

..just to be clear.. I'm not like that just to to annoy you. I'd like to know all this information, because I want to know what I'm buying on a "flea market". This is why I'd like to know from which year/serial the M9 is 100% stable/fully upgraded (if I'll be buying another in the future)? Would it be the end of 2013? I also wanted to ask them which updates would my M9 need to be fully upgraded (but they stopped responding). My M9 already got 2 fans, 5 rows of vent sockets on the chasis (also some on the side), but it's still got 10 MOSFETS...

 

[agedhorse]

To be clear, this is from internal service documentation for factory support folks only, and the factory technical support engineers support the authorized service centers only. There is a lot of detailed information involved, it can be quite confusing, and it required an excellent understanding of electronics. I/we do not have the ability, nor is there enough time in the day to attempt to support end users in an electronics education.

10 MOSFETs might be the correct rev. level for your amp but it depends on the semiconductor manufacturer and the rev. level of your driver board which is why I can't give you the answer you are asking for. This is something that an authorized service center can discuss with the factory technical support engineers. Since this is not a product I know a whole lot about the total history of (I've only been with Mesa for a few years), I have done what I can for you. If you want to explore updates to your amp, you will need to go through the Mesa authorized service center in your area.

 

[Kartofell]

To be clear, this is from internal service documentation for factory support folks only, and the factory technical support engineers support the authorized service centers only. There is a lot of detailed information involved, it can be quite confusing, and it required an excellent understanding of electronics. I/we do not have the ability, nor is there enough time in the day to attempt to support end users in an electronics education.

10 MOSFETs might be the correct rev. level for your amp but it depends on the semiconductor manufacturer and the rev. level of your driver board which is why I can't give you the answer you are asking for. This is something that an authorized service center can discuss with the factory technical support engineers. Since this is not a product I know a whole lot about the total history of (I've only been with Mesa for a few years), I have done what I can for you. If you want to explore updates to your amp, you will need to go through the Mesa authorized service center in your area.

Thanks @agedhorse! The problem is that there's no authorized Mesa service (or distribution for that matter) here in Slovenija. It's extremely hard to get a replacement trafo or any other parts. Sucks.

 

[Dave W]

My holy trinity... I love them all!

You really like a scooped tone, huh?

 

[Al Kraft]

The difference between the 900 and 600 watt versions, in terms of loudness, is tiny.

The Mesa factory service techs updated my M9 a few years back and the difference between its original 900 Watt configuration and the 600 Watt configuration are not obvious to me in any way.

 

[Kartofell]

You really like a scooped tone, huh?

Yup!

So is it safe to put my M9 Carbine to 2U rack case or would you suggest not too?

 

[Dave W]

Yup!

So is it safe to put my M9 Carbine to 2U rack case or would you suggest not too?

I had mine in one for the last 1 1/2 years and it was fine. I'm not sure where mine falls in the land of updates. I should probably figure that out at some point.

 

[Al Kraft]

So is it safe to put my M9 Carbine to 2U rack case or would you suggest not too?

I chose the SKB 3u case for my M9 and a Gator 3u for my M3. I like to give these heads some breathing room. The Gator is a bit shallower and actually works very nicely. The SKB is the tried and true heavy duty design.

Plenty of folks have used 2u racks with no reported problems, but the 3u makes me feel like I have some extra margin for moving heat away from the head.

 

[gravesbass]

I would strongly suggest to NOT use a 2 space SKB rack. The heads need room to breath.

 

[Kartofell]

I had mine in one for the last 1 1/2 years and it was fine. I'm not sure where mine falls in the land of updates. I should probably figure that out at some point.

Which is your serial if you wouldn't mind sharing it? I was thinking the same... just so I don't need to worry every single time if it will blow.. have to figure out where it is with the updates, but don't know how. I'm not even sure if it's 600w or 900w.