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Mesa PH-1200 - Why the hate?

generation zero

generation zero

Jul 24, 2012
114
11
#1
In my other "new cab incoming" thread, I seemed to be picking up on a general dislike for what I thought was the top of the line, flagship cabinet for Mesa... So since I apparently missed all previous discussion of this cab, please enlighten me as to why it seems to be generally disliked around here?

FWIW, it arrives tomorrow, so I haven't had a chance to check it out really yet in my own setting, but I did play through one years ago in a store, and thought it sounded great. Are the issues weight related, price related, or just a general dislike of anything non-standard, what with having two different size speakers in a single enclosure? Done is done, it's almost here, so I won't be changing my mind, just trying to get a feel for why it isn't liked any more than it seems to be, when there seems to be plenty love for most of Mesa's other offerings... :confused:
 
#3
Briefly: the mixing of different size drivers in a rig with no crossovers is not sound physics (but is done all the time, like a 410/115 stack). Sometimes, in some rooms it can work. Many (including me) feel that cab was engineered based on cool looks, rather than sound principles. I have heard it live a couple of times, and it sounded like mud to me. I have also heard the PH 610 (one of my favorites) and the 410 and 112. I like the others a lot more than the 15/410. As Jimmy said-check it out, but be aware that listening to a cab from close up has ZERO to do with how it will project into a room...ZERO.
 
#5
Little of everything you mentioned (mixed speakers seem to be the Cardinal sin of bass cabs here).I bought one last year, and I did like the sound, but the weight of it was eventually the deal breaker for me (I ended up trading it for a mesa 2x15). I will say that cab handled an ampeg svt cl cranked without an issue
 
#7
I had the older version built in a flightcase, the so-called Roadready 1000. Tried to like it, but never managed to get a decent sound for what I was doing. A bit muddy with an uncontrollable low-end. It may have been a mismatch with the GK-head I was using at the time, but I sold the cab before I got to try it with my Mesa M6 Carbine, so I'll never know.
 
#8
Suitable explanations, I appreciate the input. I guess I will have to make up my own mind once I get it, I think I have like 30 days to return it if I don't dig it, and I would only be out shipping one way so not too terrible. A round trip to my nearest Mesa dealer would cost me nearly as much, once you figure in sales tax on whichever cabinet I ended up choosing... so since I do like the look of it, I will rock it for a few weeks and see how it rolls. If It is sub-par, then I'll send it back and go with the 4x12.

The weight doesn't bother me at all, hauling my gear around is some of the only real exercise I get, and I could stand to lose a few pounds, LOL... :)

Thanks everyone for the responses! :) I'll be sure to post a tone report once I get to run it with my M3... although I see the Strategy Eight:88 in my very near future, if the cab doesn't suck. :D
 
#9
The main problem with the cabinet is that the single 15 simply cannot keep up with the 4x10s and is a constant weak link in the system. If you do a search on this site you'll find many threads about repairing/replacing the damaged 15. The whole concept of the cabinet design is based on a fallacy: 15 for lows, 4x10s for highs. It's designing for looks not performance.

That said, there must be many players out there who successfully use and like this cabinet. Perhaps for what YOU are doing it may well prove ideal. I hope so. :)
 
#10
i know it's a different cab, but I had a MB 1516 cab for many years. it was the best sounding cab i've ever played. It took all the wattage I threw at it, up to it's rated amount and i could easily get over 120dB on my sound meter, from this cab with my old MPulse amp. It sounded balanced and even and just great all around.
I think how these mixed driver cabs sound comes down to how they are used: EQ'd, type of room, type of bass, type of amp, etc. that is used. It may not be the best from a graph on Win ISD or the like, but that does not mean it can't be awesome.
 
#12
BassmanPaul said:
The main problem with the cabinet is that the single 15 simply cannot keep up with the 4x10s and is a constant weak link in the system. If you do a search on this site you'll find many threads about repairing/replacing the damaged 15. The whole concept of the cabinet design is based on a fallacy: 15 for lows, 4x10s for highs. It's designing for looks not performance.

That said, there must be many players out there who successfully use and like this cabinet. Perhaps for what YOU are doing it may well prove ideal. I hope so. :)
Click to expand...


How is it different in that respect from using separate 1x15 and 4x10 cabs? That's a pretty common pairing, and I don't know of many people who use that setup (myself included, with my current Hartke transporter cabs) that have had problems with the 15 not keeping up. Is it the Mesa 15 specifically, or something in how the cab is wired? You guys have me paranoid now, lol...
 
#13
generation zero said:
How is it different in that respect from using separate 1x15 and 4x10 cabs? That's a pretty common pairing, and I don't know of many people who use that setup (myself included, with my current Hartke transporter cabs) that have had problems with the 15 not keeping up. Is it the Mesa 15 specifically, or something in how the cab is wired? You guys have me paranoid now, lol...
Click to expand...

Consider this: each eight ohm cab receives half of your amps wattage. One half is then split between four 10" speakers, the other half is sent to one 15" speaker.

The 115 will always reach it's limit first, period.

The 410 will never reach it's potential without pushing the 115 beyond it's limit.

The 115 is the weak link.
 
#14
Yes, what these folks are saying is true. However, I do know folks who really like that cab and it's still being made after all these years. And while I do always get annoyed by the volume imbalance of a 410 and 115, there are others who aren't. I personally would never buy a mixed rig or cab like that one, but far be it from me to tell Paul McCartney that he doesn't sound good with his.
 
#15
StraightSix said:
Doesn't the 1516 use some crossover components to split the frequencies between the relevant drivers...?
Click to expand...

honestly, i'm not sure. you might be right and i no longer have the cab to check. i always just plugged one cable into one input.....

still, to the OP, everything else aside: if you like the cab and are up to the task of moving it around, no one else's opinion is relevant. hope you like it!
 
#17
I own a powehouse1000
Which is the same cab but with 200 less watts. It has power for days and is indestructible. Its also a pain to move. It sounds good but in my opinion a bit modern and sterile after I tried other cabs. My ampeg heritage 410 blows it out of the water sound wise. No contest. Way warmer and more balanced. The powerhouse1000 handles low tunings and the B excellently. You'll be happy but if I could go back in time id get the powerhouse 215.
 
#19
generation zero said:
How is it different in that respect from using separate 1x15 and 4x10 cabs? That's a pretty common pairing, and I don't know of many people who use that setup (myself included, with my current Hartke transporter cabs) that have had problems with the 15 not keeping up. Is it the Mesa 15 specifically, or something in how the cab is wired? You guys have me paranoid now, lol...
Click to expand...

No different..............

It is only a "common" pairing due to marketing BS. The idea that "10's bring the punch and the 15 brings the lows" is false, as speaker size tells you nothing about tone.

And.............in addition to the power distribution problem, using mismatched speakers in the same bandpass *can* create areas of boom and areas of weak bass around the room due to phasing.
 

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