Mesa Powerhouse vs Subway cabs

[uncle woody]

I don’t think any of us are saying the subway line isn’t terrific in it’s own way (I would love to own a 210 one day), but we’re talking about a sort of magic (SUBJECTIVE) that the PH had that is hard to replicate and seems to correlate with heavy design. The antithesis of subway.

 

[DigitalMan]

Does the 115 not pay in terms of quickness and high range? Especially since you seemed fond of the 12" attack.
Also, does it somewhat resemble that powerhouse sound or do you find it's just something else.

Cheers!

I play the SW115 with a TT-800, so with the different channels and damping factors it's a little easier for me to see how changes at the amp end of the solution impacts the overall feel. I think the SW115 is plenty fast when I want it to be, but I also like how the response feels natural.

My appreciation for the SW115 is based on the clarity and musicality it provides across a number of very different tone and playing profiles, and at different volumes. With a lot of cabs I feel that they have an optimal type of tone and volume, and in many cases the PowerHouse shined the most louder and with some grit.

My feeling is that the SW115 is definitely something else. It's not quite hi-fi, nor is it heavily colored, nor is it a compromise. It just really sounds and feels good to me across a broad range of situations.

 

[cardinal]

Could you try something like the Darkglass cab sim pedal (loaded with a Powerhouse IR) into a more full-range cab? That might add the voicing you want.

 

[_Some Dude]

I’m with everyone else. I own examples of both and the PH are more aggressive. You’re not going to find that sound in the SW cabs.

 

[uncle woody]

Okay, this then begs another question for me.

Supposing I only buy a Powerhouse for tone purposes (not volume), how does the PH410 or PH210 compare to the PH610. Are they the same tone in a different package? Or are they intrensically different sounding.

 

[HearNoStevil]

Okay, this then begs another question for me.

Supposing I only buy a Powerhouse for tone purposes (not volume), how does the PH410 or PH210 compare to the PH610. Are they the same tone in a different package? Or are they intrensically different sounding.

In my experience, the 210 does produce a similar tone, albeit in a slightly more "boxy" nature, but not that noticeable. The most noticeable aspect is the overall "smaller" aural footprint of the smaller cabinet, and by that of course I mean efficiency and heft.

I've never played a PH610 and don't know how (or if) it is divided internally. However, I have played the PH210 (a great little cab) and the PH410. I loved the 210, although it would never create the volume or fullness I need. However, it had a similar mid-forward tone as the 810, but just sounded "smaller" if that makes sense. The 410 I honestly did not like. For some reason it was slightly scooped and more relaxed; the most similar to the current Subway design philosophy (although not nearly as "polite"). It had a slightly boomy resonance that interfered with the mids that I actually wanted to hear.

 

[_Some Dude]

Okay, this then begs another question for me.

Supposing I only buy a Powerhouse for tone purposes (not volume), how does the PH410 or PH210 compare to the PH610. Are they the same tone in a different package? Or are they intrensically different sounding.

Which 610? If I remember correctly there was both a ported and sealed version of that cab?

 

[ShadowGroover]

If only there was a subway 610.

There is, albeit in a Rubik's Cube sort of way. Take the reportedly most mid-forward Subway cabinet, the 210.

Add 2 more Subway 210s to complete the stack. Add a Mesa D800+ in its 2ohm setting, turn up the HPF, dial in the mids exactly how you want them. Let it rip.

If you need some extra snarl, spit, or grit, add a pedal. Call your drums and guitars to the party, and fire it up loud with the band. Then, tell us how polite (or not) your rig sounded.

Need more? Add another Subway 210 to complete your Subway 810 rig. Rearrange to a "cube" of 2 210 stacks, side by side. Don't forget your earplugs.

 

[uncle woody]

Which 610? If I remember correctly there was both a ported and sealed version of that cab?

I’m talking about the standard (ported). I have the traditional 610 now and while I do like it and it definitely aims towards the same tone. it has a bit trouble getting the smooth lows. It’s a more tamed version of the PH.

Much easier to transport though so definitely keeping it for that alone.

 

[jeff7bass]

The new Subway 2112 is gettin some love around here lately. I never needed more than 2112's myself and I've played some loud, big clubs.

 

[_Some Dude]

There is, albeit in a Rubik's Cube sort of way. Take the reportedly most mid-forward Subway cabinet, the 210.

I have the SW210. I’d argue that it’s slightly scooped and the 112 is more mid forward, but guess that depends on point of view.

The if you’re looking for upper mid cut, SW 210 has that in spades.

If you’re looking for overall mids, the 112 has enough to drown out any guitarist I’ve played with.

If you’re looking for low mids, the 115 has enough molasses to fuel a BBQ.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I haven’t tried the Subway cabinets, but I’m enjoying reading people’s thoughts about their tone. So to those folks who have tried them out, which model has the least amount of a mid-scoop?

I fought the mid-scoop my Bergantino HT-210/HT-115 have for a couple of years before I threw in the towel and bought my Mesa PH212s. Of the cabinets I own, they’re my favorite. I love their “Baked In” tone. It’s very “up front”, and it kills for more aggressive styles.

I also own a ported Powerhouse 610. I’ve been using my Aguilar TH500 to power it, and it’s a fantastic sounding cabinet. It has a very slight mid-scoop, but it can be negated with a bit of eq.

I’ve been wanting to hook up my GED-2112/Crest CA9 to my PH212s and my PH610 but my PH212s are in my basement, and I’m recovering from major surgery, so it’ll be some time before I can.

 

[_Some Dude]

I haven’t tried the Subway cabinets, but I’m enjoying reading people’s thoughts about their tone. So to those folks who have tried them out, which model has the least amount of a mid-scoop?

The 112, and by extension, I assume the 212.

Personally, with the way I play and the sort of tone I go for, with the SW112 I had a really difficult time not having volume wars with the other guitarists. I switched the SW 112 for a SW 210 on top of the SW 115 because it opened up the midrange for the guitars to slot in better while giving me the upper mids to cut in over top of the guitars.

The 115 is magic in a box. It has a way of filling a room with sound that’s just awesome.

That said, my viewpoint is biased. After the above setup I got a PH 410 because it was even more scooped. Sledgehammer punch with an aggressive upper midrange. I also like having the focus/clarity that comes with all the speakers being the same.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I have the SW210. I’d argue that it’s slightly scooped and the 112 is more mid forward, but guess that depends on point of view.



The if you’re looking for upper mid cut, SW 210 has that in spades.

If you’re looking for overall mids, the 112 has enough to drown out any guitarist I’ve played with.

If you’re looking for low mids, the 115 has enough molasses to fuel a BBQ.

the Peavey is honestly built better than the Mesa cabs I own. I know some people won't believe that, but the Peavey uses cast-frame Eminence USA drivers, and each screw is held by a T-nut where the Mesa cab uses cheaper stamped drivers, and plain wood screws screwed directly into the wood (no T-nuts) with no regard to whether the screwholes are lined up with each other speaker. It's like they sat the speaker anywhere on the hole and immediately screwed it down. When two speakers are next to each other, all the screws are inserted at random locations. You don't really see it without a grill, but I was surprised to see such cost-cutting and time-saving production methods. I also had to have Mesa remake two of my grills as the grill material was pretty badly crooked; I was surprisingly given the explanation that it was designed to "look good at 30 feet, not 3 feet" until I went up the chain to get someone to address the problem.....The Peavey uses a higher gage wire, heavier more extensive bracing, and is a sealed 4 chamber cabinet with ample insulation stapled to the walls of every chamber; the Mesas have insulation, but it isn't secured like the Peavey....,

Here is one of my Mesa 810 cabs. I did them all in crazy colors.

View attachment 3950628

In all honesty, if you can find one, I would find a Peavey VB-810 cab. You can find them used for a few hundred bucks. They are a true old-school cabinet, loud as hell, and built like a beast. They are the last USA-made Peavey cabinets, and owning both, the Peavey is honestly built better than the Mesa cabs I own. I know some people won't believe that, but the Peavey uses cast-frame Eminence USA drivers, and each screw is held by a T-nut where the Mesa cab uses cheaper stamped drivers, and plain wood screws screwed directly into the wood (no T-nuts) with no regard to whether the screwholes are lined up with each other speaker. It's like they sat the speaker anywhere on the hole and immediately screwed it down. When two speakers are next to each other, all the screws are inserted at random locations. You don't really see it without a grill, but I was surprised to see such cost-cutting and time-saving production methods. I also had to have Mesa remake two of my grills as the grill material was pretty badly crooked; I was surprisingly given the explanation that it was designed to "look good at 30 feet, not 3 feet" until I went up the chain to get someone to address the problem. They then remade them perfectly as they have some great guys working in the actual shop; the ones who actually build the stuff are true craftsmen.

The Peavey uses a higher gage wire, heavier more extensive bracing, and is a sealed 4 chamber cabinet with ample insulation stapled to the walls of every chamber; the Mesas have insulation, but it isn't secured like the Peavey. The Peavey is a bit lighter overall, and covered in durable bedliner (not as fancy as the Mesa vinyl for sure but still looks great, and more workmanlike). The Peavey is a bit more aggressive in the midrange, but the overall efficiency is about the same as the Mesa, and surprisingly close in overall tone, with a nudge going to the Peavey since the Peavey's grill is more transparent than the thicker Mesa grill material which filters out some of the upper mid aggressiveness. Also, the Peavey has provisions for running it in stereo where the Mesa stupidly just has one input.

I love my Mesa cabs, but I'm just being honest in my review. The Peavey is the old-school vibe of the old Mesa cabinets at a fraction of the cost, all the tone, and none of the bloom.

Mesa used stamped frame 10”s in the Standard (Ported) PH610?!? Say it ain’t so!!!

I’m also unpleasantly surprised to hear they didn’t use T-nuts to secure the speakers?!? And it sounds like their internal construction methods were rather shoddy. Bummer!!!

For the price tag Mesa puts on their gear, I expect the highest level of quality in construction and components.

 

[agedhorse]

In general, the Subway cabinets are fairly flat compared with the Powerhouse cabinets that a more mid and high mid forward voicing. In the PH line, the 15" cabinets with EVM-15L's (I believe these would be the earliest version) would be the flattest in the mids but even these are more mid forward than the Subway 115/215 which are quite flat in the mids.

In the Subway line, the 112/212 are more high mid forward than the 15" or 10" models.

 

[HearNoStevil]

Mesa used cast frame 10”s in the Standard (Ported) PH610?!? Say it ain’t so!!!

I’m also unpleasantly surprised to hear they didn’t use T-nuts to secure the speakers?!? And it sounds like their internal construction methods were rather shoddy. Bummer!!!

For the price tag Mesa puts on their gear, I expect the highest level of quality in construction and components.

None of my Mesa bass cabs came with cast frame speakers. The Peaveys do; the VB-810 uses Eminence Legend CA cast drivers. The Mesa cabs I have came with stamped steel drivers of Eminence origin; I don't know if they are USA made (I have since replaced them). I have no clue what the Subway cabs use.

I love my Mesa cabs, and their vinyl work is top-notch, as is the majority of their construction. But the "crooked" speakers and lack of t-nuts was disappointing. I was spoiled by the Peavey build quality and expected at least as much from the Mesa cabs, but like you I was "unpleasantly surprised."

 

[_Some Dude]

Mesa used cast frame 10”s in the Standard (Ported) PH610?!? Say it ain’t so!!!

I’m also unpleasantly surprised to hear they didn’t use T-nuts to secure the speakers?!? And it sounds like their internal construction methods were rather shoddy. Bummer!!!

For the price tag Mesa puts on their gear, I expect the highest level of quality in construction and components.

What’s important is.... do you like the way they sound? Construction methods are inconsequential provided you like the sound and they’re solid enough to survive whatever you’re going to put them through.

At the end of the day, a superiorly constructed cab with inferior tone still sounds like ****.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

None of my Mesa bass cabs came with cast frame speakers. The Peaveys do; the VB-810 uses Eminence Legend CA cast drivers. The Mesa cabs I have came with stamped steel drivers of Eminence origin; I don't know if they are USA made (I have since replaced them). I have no clue what the Subway cabs use.

I love my Mesa cabs, and their vinyl work is top-notch, as is the majority of their construction. But the "crooked" speakers and lack of t-nuts was disappointing. I was spoiled by the Peavey build quality and expected at least as much from the Mesa cabs, but like you I was "unpleasantly surprised."

I made a typo, I meant to say “stamped frame” instead of cast.

I’ve always been told stamped frame bass speakers can’t match the performance of a cast frame speaker.

I am disappointed. And at that time, Mesa’s specs page didn’t tell much.

Stamped frame 10”s.....Bummer.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

What’s important is.... do you like the way they sound? Construction methods are inconsequential provided you like the sound and they’re solid enough to survive whatever you’re going to put them through.

At the end of the day, a superiorly constructed cab with inferior tone still sounds like ****.

Yeah, I do love the PH610’s tone. I haven’t gigged with the cabinet yet, but I have no doubts it will do a great job.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

What’s important is.... do you like the way they sound? Construction methods are inconsequential provided you like the sound and they’re solid enough to survive whatever you’re going to put them through.

At the end of the day, a superiorly constructed cab with inferior tone still sounds like ****.

I

What’s important is.... do you like the way they sound? Construction methods are inconsequential provided you like the sound and they’re solid enough to survive whatever you’re going to put them through.

At the end of the day, a superiorly constructed cab with inferior tone still sounds like ****.

I hear you there. Mesa gear isn’t budget priced. I guess I expected they used the best quality speakers available for their bass cabinets.