Mesa Subway 115 and 210 stack

[murphy]

I would have to second this, especially since the op mentioned sound quality as a priority. I've played the 115 alone, the 115x2, the 410, and 410 +115. All combinations sound great, but if you really want the depth, richness and clarity of a fridge, but in a smaller lighter package, then get the 410. You won't be disappointed. Oh and it also gets really loud if you need that too

No One has mentioned comb filtering of the 410 format.....Isn't that the big reason why we are all supposed to move away from the side by side speaker combo?
Don't get me wrong...I do LOVE the Fridge and 410 cabs...But do understand the off axis issues re sound projection....I think???

 

[jnewmark]

No One has mentioned comb filtering of the 410 format.....Isn't that the big reason why we are all supposed to move away from the side by side speaker combo?
Don't get me wrong...I do LOVE the Fridge and 410 cabs...But do understand the off axis issues re sound projection....I think???

Years ago, you would have got an answer like this: "Inherently, a 4 x 10 has significant comb filtering. And the differing phase response of a 15 cab AND a 4 x 10 cab trying to reproduce the content in the same pass band leads to frequency cancellations.", or something like that. The 410 has come a long way since, I would imagine, and the design and goals of the designer play in to the more modern 410 cab builds. But, as always, @agedhorse I'm sure knows more about this.

 

[agedhorse]

If I had to chose between the 115 and the 212, I'd go with the 212 as a one cab solution. With PA support, you will never "need" another cab.

I have a SW210 and stumbled onto a new SW410 at my local GC this weekend. That little voice wanting to complete my "set" was screaming at me to snag it. My OCD is bothered by the different footprint from the rest of the line. Have to assume agedhorse and crew went with with that form to appeal to the 410/810 stack folks, but I would have preferred a taller version of the 210. I DO get to play out of 2 x SW210s nearly every weekend so CAN confirm 410s is indeed glorious. The 10's, to me, sound slightly scooped and are the least mid forward of the line. I kinda dig them for lower volume stuff, and use them for a regular "acoustic volume" jam session.

Yes, the 410 is intended for players looking for the larger stack orientation, we have touring players with 2x410's in a single rolling flight case.

No One has mentioned comb filtering of the 410 format.....Isn't that the big reason why we are all supposed to move away from the side by side speaker combo?
Don't get me wrong...I do LOVE the Fridge and 410 cabs...But do understand the off axis issues re sound projection....I think???

In practice, it's not always bad, or even as bad as some predict. Sometimes it can be, but the geometry of different drivers affect the results.

If it was always bad, the iconic SVT 810 would not have been so successful and long lived.

 

[fauxtoe]

Thanks for the info. If you were only going to have one cab, in my case for home playing, would you pick the 115 or the 212?

For home playing and the most easy to transport and expand upon, the 115 for sure.

 

[bassmahn]

I recently purchased a Mesa D--350. I am thinking of getting the Mesa 115 and 210 to go with it. I know I don't need the pair for volume, I am looking for the best sound. For owners of this or other stacks, what do you think? I am a home player. I know this is a lot of cab for that. Would you say go for it, it will be awesome? Do the 115 alone, pair it with something else, do something completely different? Money isn't a limiting factor, within reason. Thanks in advance.

I've had my Subway 210 and 115 stack for about five years, and I love them! My previous rig was a Bergantino HT-322 and a Demeter bass amp. I don't feel like I'm missing anything that I've had with any of my previous rigs. Feel pretty spoiled with the sound quality and the portability of my Subway rig.

 

[sludgetail]

Do it! Served me right for many years at home, studio & rehearsal space. The 215 is a great cab too, loved that one with the WD800. But the 210/115 with the D800+ and a Stingray was all I could ask for.

Both the 115 and the 210 are such unique cabs in terms of breaking the mold for what these configurations have traditionally been known for, and they compliment one another very very well.

The 115 has the low end you covet, but it also has a fidelity in the air it moves, I dunno how to explain it properly but it such a solid performer. The 210 has that punch, and it also brought a lot of thunder to the mix, immediate (with the D800+) thump and great for what I was playing.

With the WD800, and the adjustable "sag" it had, that 115 was gold, it hit hard and clear. Hard rock, funk, Motown, it would nail it all.

Hope you get what works best for you, but for me, the combo you're inquiring about really hit the spot.

 

[Peter - Oregon]

If you consider a 212, keep in mind that the 2 x 112 can be stacked vertically so it has a lesser footprint and is closer to ear level. The top tweeter will be two times higher on the vertical 2 x 112.

In fact, I just recently downsized from a 210 + 115 setup for LIVE gigs because it was overkill even for our outdoor big shows we play (thanks to the marvel of in-ear monitors and powerful FOH sound). So I only need to provide a little bit of thump for everyone on stage to feel it

Hi Peter

I have played all kinds of different cab combinations 10s +18s (bi amped) 10s + 10s , 10s + 15s and

15s +15s and even 12s and 18s. (and I confess that I even used different brands)

I was always on the run from the mixed cab/ speaker police.

Every combination can sound good. But like Andy said:



It's always best to try before you buy! It can be expensive if you don't. (ask me how Iknow )




You can't go wrong with something you like! => start here!



You get one more! More is always better! (see below)



Even with two identical cabs you get two "tones" or rather sounds

One sound from the cab that couples with the floor and one different sound from the one on top.

It's the room that does this. Even with the same volume this combination will sound bigger than one cab.

Because one cab can't be in two different places at the same time. (makes that sense?)



You can and should try different placements for your cab! Lifting it above one foot can lighten up your sound

Decoupling it from the floor will make your sound less bassy.

You also might hear yourself better because the speaker is closer to ear level.



Adults use a beer crate (or two next to each other)


I think if you get two 115s (that you like!) your Mesa will sound great!

I also think you should go with two 8 ohm cabs (= 4 ohm together),

and try them with your PF50T. That little beast sounds awesome with two cabs!!!!


have fun

Wise(b)ass

Hi Peter

I have played all kinds of different cab combinations 10s +18s (bi amped) 10s + 10s , 10s + 15s and

15s +15s and even 12s and 18s. (and I confess that I even used different brands)

I was always on the run from the mixed cab/ speaker police.

Every combination can sound good. But like Andy said:



It's always best to try before you buy! It can be expensive if you don't. (ask me how Iknow )




You can't go wrong with something you like! => start here!



You get one more! More is always better! (see below)



Even with two identical cabs you get two "tones" or rather sounds

One sound from the cab that couples with the floor and one different sound from the one on top.

It's the room that does this. Even with the same volume this combination will sound bigger than one cab.

Because one cab can't be in two different places at the same time. (makes that sense?)



You can and should try different placements for your cab! Lifting it above one foot can lighten up your sound

Decoupling it from the floor will make your sound less bassy.

You also might hear yourself better because the speaker is closer to ear level.



Adults use a beer crate (or two next to each other)


I think if you get two 115s (that you like!) your Mesa will sound great!

I also think you should go with two 8 ohm cabs (= 4 ohm together),

and try them with your PF50T. That little beast sounds awesome with two cabs!!!!


have fun

Wise(b)ass

Thanks for the (always) great reply Wise(b)ass. I particularly appreciate your explanation of why two of the same cabs make a big difference.

 

[Peter - Oregon]

I greatly appreciate the input of all of you! The 115 seems like the best idea for me. Knowing myself, I may well add another cab down the road. I had an BA115, and have a PF-115LF. Although I don't have the opportunity to easily try the other cabs, I like the 115. I also trust the wisdom of the TB crowd that the 115 is a great cab. I am going in to my shop this afternoon to spend some more time with it.

 

[Bassngtr]

My first ever set of cabs were an Eden D210XLT over a D115XLT. I loved that combo. So from day 1 I've been a fan of that configuration. I later bought a D210XST as well. All the combos are great.

Though it's not what you're asking (this being TB) I need to chime in on the SW215. I bought a SW215 for multiple reasons to use with my D800+:
- it's 2 15" spkrs and it's Mesa (thanks Andy!)!
- 60 lbs, about the same as my D210XLT
- Super transportable! 2 side handles, a back top handle, tilts back onto 2 wheels, and back rails. For my needs this ease of transport is the game changer - IMO it may be easier to move than even the single 115 due to the wheels. I can stand it upright in my 4Runner.
- Having a 2nd vertical 15 gets it closer to my ears
- the vertical and overall footprint is amazingly compact. Up close it feels big, but in pictures I am always surprised to see how compact the 215 is. I've used it on gigs that are way too small for a 215, simply because it's my easiest cab to move around (I still have and use my Edens).

All the best in your choice!!

 

[musicman556]

I greatly appreciate the input of all of you! The 115 seems like the best idea for me. Knowing myself, I may well add another cab down the road. I had an BA115, and have a PF-115LF. Although I don't have the opportunity to easily try the other cabs, I like the 115. I also trust the wisdom of the TB crowd that the 115 is a great cab. I am going in to my shop this afternoon to spend some more time with it.

Wonderful plan. I also had only the 115 for a couple months, then added the 210.

One other thing I wanted to mention that is discussed in other Subway threads but I don't see in this one: the Subways are pretty much nothing like "traditional" speakers cabs. The old ideas of "15s sound like XYZ, and 10s sound like ABC" are not relevant. Andy (AgedHorse, the engineer/designer of these cabs) did some really cool clean-sheet design stuff with these cabs that flies right in the face of a lot of conventional cab wisdom. IE: any experience with other cabs that are not Subways is irrelevant to the discussion.

The Subway stuff is REALLY different, in a great way. I would encourage you to approach the cabs with a fresh perspective. Don't immediately EQ the amp or bass "like you would" for any previous cab or speaker size. Start with everything flat. Play the bass up and down the neck, with all of the various techniques and attacks that you would use - loud, soft, pluck way up towards the 12th fret for those deep, hollow tones, and then get down towards the bridge for that bright, snappy tone. Play lightly and smooth, then dig in and get aggressive. Learn the cab a bit first, THEN start messing with EQ/tone to adjust to taste.

I find the 115 is REALLY responsive to technique, especially as you feed it some power. It's the only cab I've experienced that almost plays WITH you as you play with it! It may be socially awkward to really put some volume to the cab at the store. I promise though, if you like the cab at low volumes, you will LOVE it when it's pushed!

Let us know what you think!

 

[petch]

I started with the 15 powered by a D-800 and did plenty of gigs that way. When a used 12 came up for sale locally, I jumped on it. The 15+12 combination is bass bliss for me! I'm also more than happy with the simplicity and performance of the D-800. Mesa has done a fantastic job with the entire Subway line.

 

[bmusic]

Just went through this myself. VERY infrequent gigger—maybe twice in a year?—but want to sound good when I do and don't mind paying for it. I like the modular aspect of a stack like you're talking about (after bringing home a SVT 410 Heritage, hurting my back moving it around, and returning it).

I ended up with Aguilar Super Lights—115 and 210. The Ag site says they pair well together, so I took them at their word. Sounded great Saturday night.

Yeah, all the various opinions are out there, but I figured, punch of the 10s, bottom of the 15...specs agree, manufacturer agrees...

 

[juancaminos]

I've had the Subway 112/115, 210/115, and 115/115. The 115/115 is my favorite, and the 210/115 was my least favorite. The 210 had an upper-mid bite that didn't work well for me. The Subway 115 is one of the best bass cabs on the market, so two of them are even better.

I have the 115/210 set up and really want to try the 115 x 2. But have to pay off a PA system first.

 

[Peter - Oregon]

Wonderful plan. I also had only the 115 for a couple months, then added the 210.

One other thing I wanted to mention that is discussed in other Subway threads but I don't see in this one: the Subways are pretty much nothing like "traditional" speakers cabs. The old ideas of "15s sound like XYZ, and 10s sound like ABC" are not relevant. Andy (AgedHorse, the engineer/designer of these cabs) did some really cool clean-sheet design stuff with these cabs that flies right in the face of a lot of conventional cab wisdom. IE: any experience with other cabs that are not Subways is irrelevant to the discussion.

The Subway stuff is REALLY different, in a great way. I would encourage you to approach the cabs with a fresh perspective. Don't immediately EQ the amp or bass "like you would" for any previous cab or speaker size. Start with everything flat. Play the bass up and down the neck, with all of the various techniques and attacks that you would use - loud, soft, pluck way up towards the 12th fret for those deep, hollow tones, and then get down towards the bridge for that bright, snappy tone. Play lightly and smooth, then dig in and get aggressive. Learn the cab a bit first, THEN start messing with EQ/tone to adjust to taste.

I find the 115 is REALLY responsive to technique, especially as you feed it some power. It's the only cab I've experienced that almost plays WITH you as you play with it! It may be socially awkward to really put some volume to the cab at the store. I promise though, if you like the cab at low volumes, you will LOVE it when it's pushed!

Let us know what you think!

Great post thank you! I will when I get it.

 

[Peter - Oregon]

My first ever set of cabs were an Eden D210XLT over a D115XLT. I loved that combo. So from day 1 I've been a fan of that configuration. I later bought a D210XST as well. All the combos are great.

Though it's not what you're asking (this being TB) I need to chime in on the SW215. I bought a SW215 for multiple reasons to use with my D800+:
- it's 2 15" spkrs and it's Mesa (thanks Andy!)!
- 60 lbs, about the same as my D210XLT
- Super transportable! 2 side handles, a back top handle, tilts back onto 2 wheels, and back rails. For my needs this ease of transport is the game changer - IMO it may be easier to move than even the single 115 due to the wheels. I can stand it upright in my 4Runner.
- Having a 2nd vertical 15 gets it closer to my ears
- the vertical and overall footprint is amazingly compact. Up close it feels big, but in pictures I am always surprised to see how compact the 215 is. I've used it on gigs that are way too small for a 215, simply because it's my easiest cab to move around (I still have and use my Edens).

All the best in your choice!!

I am sure this is discussed elsewhere, but I figured you or others on this thread might have an opinion on it. Is there much difference between the sound of a 215 vs 2 stacked 115s?

 

[Eneade]

This thread shows how times have changed.

Years ago, people would practice at home with a small combo and play big venues with a 410 + 115 or a 810.

Nowdays, people get 215s to play in their bedroom while others make stadiums ampless with IRs.

 

[agedhorse]

I am sure this is discussed elsewhere, but I figured you or others on this thread might have an opinion on it. Is there much difference between the sound of a 215 vs 2 stacked 115s?

No, not really, though there is the added tweeter output IF the second tweeter is turned up.

 

[SoulReflection]

I recently purchased a Mesa D--350. I am thinking of getting the Mesa 115 and 210 to go with it. I know I don't need the pair for volume, I am looking for the best sound. For owners of this or other stacks, what do you think? I am a home player. I know this is a lot of cab for that. Would you say go for it, it will be awesome? Do the 115 alone, pair it with something else, do something completely different? Money isn't a limiting factor, within reason. Thanks in advance.

Well, I am also a "home player" but have to question why you need a D-350 with even one 15" cab?

I had a Rumble 200 with an R115 cab. That could blow out the windows and result in police activities and a divorce!

I sold them and now have a Rumble 100 and barely need to turn it up with its 12" drive and that is without my hearing aids .

If I was gigging, I would not hesitate to step up to Mesa.

 

[Peter - Oregon]

Well, I am also a "home player" but have to question why you need a D-350 with even one 15" cab?

I had a Rumble 200 with an R115 cab. That could blow out the windows and result in police activities and a divorce!

I sold them and now have a Rumble 100 and barely need to turn it up with its 12" drive and that is without my hearing aids .

If I was gigging, I would not hesitate to step up to Mesa.

Thanks Soul. The honest answer is that I can, I guess. I have a couple of different rigs, and enjoy playing and hearing different things. Not unusual, I don't think.

 

[Nodak Savage]

I am sure this is discussed elsewhere, but I figured you or others on this thread might have an opinion on it. Is there much difference between the sound of a 215 vs 2 stacked 115s?

I've got the 210 and 115 stack and recently acquired a 215. I thought about getting another 210 or 115 but also took into consideration "do I want to lift 38lbs twice or lift 60lbs once?" Not to mention the fact that I don't have to fight a dolly anymore as the tilt back wheels are so much easier to deal with. But like Agedhorse said, you're just getting a second tweeter if you go the 2 x 115 route. If a person wants 2 15" i seriously don't see the point in buying 2 separate 115's. Plus the big MESA badge looks so much better than those puny ones.