Mesa Subway D800 - low volume from DI

[BoesPronounBass]

Hi everyone,

Anyone else had issues with low output volume from Mesa’s D800 DI to the board? And yes, I ensured line levels and even switched to try mic level just in case something got flipped. I had some of the same issue where I can’t get a high enough volume from DI to balance, but figured they’d have enough gain at venue to compensate but he had same issue… if I adjust the amp though I’m going to get too much volume from my cabinet on stage. Maybe my speaker is just too efficient to get balance (Schroeder cab)? I did have it in PostEQ because I wanted some shaking… I wouldn’t think that would lower the output at all though???

Anyway… I have a Tech 21 SansAmp too, so I’ll just bring that to gigs for future situations and it will solve that issue and more… but seems like the head should provide a usable/balanced way to run both DI and power a cab… I’m not finding it though.

Thoughts? Suggestions? It doesn’t look like any of the Mesa Subway amps offer a way to independently control the DI from main… I can’t imagine this can be an issue across the whole line? Is my head just having an issue?

 

[agedhorse]

This is the first complaint about the DI that I have seen in the 8 years that the amp(s) has been in production. This is a circuit that I have used for many years, there are tens of thousands out there using the same circuit.

The first thing I would consider is either a defective mic cable, the second is a defective FOH engineer that missed either the pad switch or the input gain control.

As long as you had a reasonable volume in your cabinet, the DI in post mode will be plenty fine.

You might try pre mode, and let the FOH guy adjust the channel to get what works best in the mix, but presumes he’s not “defective”.

 

[BoesPronounBass]

Thanks… I’ll experiment on my end. I’ve had issues with output being low… but functional overall on my end. To have FOH also have same issue though reinforced to me that something might be going on. More testing and perhaps contacting Mesa in the future.

 

[agedhorse]

You are contacting Mesa, I designed the amp. I’m also a long time touring FOH engineer, so I’m pretty familiar with how a DI is supposed to function and the levels that are the norms for the industry.

What specifically are you going into that’s having issues? What are the control settings on the console?

 

[BoesPronounBass]

Nice! Didn’t know you designed - appreciate you so much! I knew you had worked Mesa from some past threads but wasn’t sure if still did - this is also the only issue ever (and may be non-issue as you note). Amazing amp in killer small package.

I don’t know if I’ll be back to that venue - seemed like an older board, but knowledgeable FOH guy overall (course everyone gets their own quirks/oversights/tendencies). On my end when I was testing my handheld recorder I was having similar issue where raising ext input fully and then lowering int mics fully could not get matching dB levels. So I can test that way now. I’ve got a simple Peavy board I can test in a few weeks when back in a different practice space too. Do you mind if I shoot you a message when I’ve done that with what I’ve found?

 

[agedhorse]

Troubleshooting is a step by step process. You need to know how the other equipment works in order to be sure that the assumptions are correct. With your recorder, is the external input mic or line? Is it XLR balanced? What is the range of internal mic sensitivity? Many onboard recorder mics have 20dB higher sensitivity compared with typical MI mic levels because of the different applications. The levels can’t be compared the way you are with the same results you expect because of the intentional built in difference.

Also, the post DI level is affected by the input gain control, so if you operate with a very low input gain control position and very high master position, the DI signal will be proportionally lower. The level will also be proportional to the volume, at bedroom volumes the lever will also be lower.

Message me when you get a chance to do more troubleshooting.

 

[Alivefor5]

You are contacting Mesa, I designed the amp.

One of the many reasons I spend time on Talkbass.

 

[JakobT]

One of the many reasons I spend time on Talkbass.

Definitely. The sage advice of @agedhorse has taught me much about amps, especially what not to do and what to stay away from.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

@agedhorse
For sure hall of fame status on TB.

 

[Engle]

This is the first complaint about the DI that I have seen in the 8 years that the amp(s) has been in production. This is a circuit that I have used for many years, there are tens of thousands out there using the same circuit.

The first thing I would consider is either a defective mic cable, the second is a defective FOH engineer that missed either the pad switch or the input gain control.

As long as you had a reasonable volume in your cabinet, the DI in post mode will be plenty fine.

You might try pre mode, and let the FOH guy adjust the channel to get what works best in the mix, but presumes he’s not “defective”.

I'm currently using my D800+ DI for recording. It sounds great.

 

[MCF]

Nice! Didn’t know you designed - appreciate you so much! I knew you had worked Mesa from some past threads but wasn’t sure if still did - this is also the only issue ever (and may be non-issue as you note). Amazing amp in killer small package.

I don’t know if I’ll be back to that venue - seemed like an older board, but knowledgeable FOH guy overall (course everyone gets their own quirks/oversights/tendencies). On my end when I was testing my handheld recorder I was having similar issue where raising ext input fully and then lowering int mics fully could not get matching dB levels. So I can test that way now. I’ve got a simple Peavy board I can test in a few weeks when back in a different practice space too. Do you mind if I shoot you a message when I’ve done that with what I’ve found?

Please let us know what Andy and you figure out. It’s how all of us learn.

 

[agedhorse]

Please let us know what Andy and you figure out. It’s how all of us learn.

We will, while it’s always possible that the DI got damaged, it’s more likely that it’s a misunderstanding in either how it works or how the equipment it’s driving is working or is supposed to work.

We will set it sorted out for sure.