Mesa vs Eden

[Dirthill]

Looking for some opinions. I’m replacing my current practice amp (Peavey Max 300) with either a Mesa Boogie Bass Buster 200 combo (non wedge style) with a single 15” or a Eden E300T head with a Eden single 15” cab. The Mesa is $100 more so cost isn’t an issue. I played the Mesa which I liked. I have never played the Eden and there is very little out there about it. I have Eden cabinets that I like with my main amp. I thought the Mesa would be easier to sell down the road. Any opinions on which one you guys would pick would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[agedhorse]

Be aware that parts availability for both amps is becoming an issue, repairs (IF POSSIBLE) can get really expensive in a hurry.

 

[Dirthill]

Be aware that parts availability for both amps is becoming an issue, repairs (IF POSSIBLE) can get really expensive in a hurry.

Do you think that one of them would be more reliable than the other?

 

[FRoss6788]

Do you think that one of them would be more reliable than the other?

I would imagine that the history of how those amps were used and treated over the years would play a large role in their future reliability.

 

[agedhorse]

Do you think that one of them would be more reliable than the other?

no way to know. Amps that old become in part a guessing game.

 

[Dirthill]

Well, I decided to go with the Mesa. I pick it up tomorrow. I know I like the tone and I think it might be a better built amp. The Eden is made over seas. Thank you for everyone’s input.

 

[Wasnex]

There is a fairly long thread on the Eden.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/eden-e300t.462660/
Some of the links are dead because the Eden forum is gone. It's claimed the E300T is basically the same amp as the Fame/Ashton/Smarvo BV300. So AFAIK it's a budget amp. Probably best to avoid.

I would rather have a Buster head than a combo. I don't think it's a great idea to have a tube amp mechanically coupled to a speaker cab. Also a tube combo will be a real handful to cart around (heavy and awkward).

I have a Buster head. To my ears it's voiced more like the Strategy and Prodigy than the D180, 400, or 400+. I own all of these except the Prodigy. If I could only keep one, it would probably be the 400. The Strategy is my least favorite and Buster is slightly more to my liking.

Many describe the Buster as sounding stiff and solid state. Some words I would use to describe it: lean, warm, boxey, diffuse (unfocused). I think Buster sounds best pushed right to the edge. At the limit it develops some nice tubey qualities. However, IMHO it's best to avoid pushing it over the limit as it does not do drive particularly well.

 

[agedhorse]

Be sure you are capable of moving around the Buster combo, it's awfully heavy... somewhere around 100 lbs.

 

[Dirthill]

There is a fairly long thread on the Eden.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/eden-e300t.462660/
Some of the links are dead because the Eden forum is gone. It's claimed the E300T is basically the same amp as the Fame/Ashton/Smarvo BV300. So AFAIK it's a budget amp. Probably best to avoid.

I would rather have a Buster head than a combo. I don't think it's a great idea to have a tube amp mechanically coupled to a speaker cab. Also a tube combo will be a real handful to cart around (heavy and awkward).

I have a Buster head. To my ears it's voiced more like the Strategy and Prodigy than the D180, 400, or 400+. I own all of these except the Prodigy. If I could only keep one, it would probably be the 400. The Strategy is my least favorite and Buster is slightly more to my liking.

Many describe the Buster as sounding stiff and solid state. Some words I would use to describe it: lean, warm, boxey, diffuse (unfocused). I think Buster sounds best pushed right to the edge. At the limit it develops some nice tubey qualities. However, IMHO it's best to avoid pushing it over the limit as it does not do drive particularly well.

It won’t get moved around. It’s going to my bands practice space. I have a Fender Bassman 1200 Pro head with 2 Eden cabinets (4x10 & 2x15). But you never know if I start really liking the Mesa I might gig with it.

 

[Pep]

Do you think that one of them would be more reliable than the other?Mesa D800+. Don’t mess around with gear that may need to be repaired should you have a problem.you’ll be sorry!

Looking for some opinions. I’m replacing my current practice amp (Peavey Max 300) with either a Mesa Boogie Bass Buster 200 combo (non wedge style) with a single 15” or a Eden E300T head with a Eden single 15” cab. The Mesa is $100 more so cost isn’t an issue. I played the Mesa which I liked. I have never played the Eden and there is very little out there about it. I have Eden cabinets that I like with my main amp. I thought the Mesa would be easier to sell down the road. Any opinions on which one you guys would pick would be appreciated. Thanks.

Eden is out of business. The Eden you see today is a totally new company with no parts available for the original Edens. Don’t ask me how I know.
“Agedhorse” is an engineer at Mesa and what he’s telling you is the honest truth about the lack of parts for the older models.
Get a Mesa D800+ and be done with it. You can thank me later.

 

[Pep]

Well, I decided to go with the Mesa. I pick it up tomorrow. I know I like the tone and I think it might be a better built amp. The Eden is made over seas. Thank you for everyone’s input.

The new Edens are imports and imposters.

 

[agedhorse]

The new Edens are imports and imposters.

Only kind of. The new owners are the legitimate owners of the brand but they are only indirectly related to the original brand/ownership. How much of the original philosophy and direction they have retained is yet to be seen IMO.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Looking for some opinions. I’m replacing my current practice amp (Peavey Max 300) with either a Mesa Boogie Bass Buster 200 combo (non wedge style) with a single 15” or a Eden E300T head with a Eden single 15” cab. The Mesa is $100 more so cost isn’t an issue. I played the Mesa which I liked. I have never played the Eden and there is very little out there about it. I have Eden cabinets that I like with my main amp. I thought the Mesa would be easier to sell down the road. Any opinions on which one you guys would pick would be appreciated. Thanks.

The Eden E300T was a 300-watt all-tube head. It had a great sound but significantly different than the Eden WT amps because it was an all-tube amp and had different voicing on the speakers and cabs. The speakers from that series were tuned higher for more punch and more of a Rock edge to the sound. It has an Overdrive switch, which when engaged shifts the amp into an ultra-high gain state. The gain control can then be used to adjust from clean and fat up to a fully saturated overdrivensound. The bass, low-mid/high-mid toggle, and the treble EQ make it easy to dial in your sound quickly and intuitively. Bear in mind that a two-click change in the settings on any of the EQ controls will yield a noticeable difference in your sound. So make small adjustments and only change on control at a time.

One of the really nice things about it was that you can individually bias each tube in it. So if a tube went bad, you could just replace that one tube and adjust the bias to match the rest of the set without buying sets of 2, 4, or 6 tubes or make a compromise in the bias between them.

These 300-watt rms Tube Amps weren't really available for too many years. They came out in 2008 and the cabs that were made specifically for that amp were 115, 210, 410, and 810 cabs. The amp and the cabs all had classic cloth grill covers instead of the metal grill of other Eden speakers. In 2009 they changed the name of the amp from E-300T to WTB300V. Eden also changed the cosmetics of the amp from a more vintage look to a modern look with the metal grill plate on the amp both front and back that allowed you to see through into the tubes inside. None of the ExxxV speaker cabs were included in the 2009 catalog. The last catalog that the WTB300V appeared in was the 2009/2010 catalog released in last quarter of 2009. It was not in the 2011/2012 catalog.

I do recall when these amps were closed out. The E300T version (2008) started showing up at crazy low prices. If I recall correctly this amp was between $1500 and $1700 new. They suddenly they appeared at dealers for around $800 and even got down to $600 before all the stock was sold out. Like all of the 300-watt all-valve amps out there this one was no lightweight. It weighs in at 42-lbs. It has a great tube sound, uses six KT88 tubes. I've attached a pdf copy of the owner's manual to this post and it applies to both the E-300T and the WTB-300V as there are only cosmetic differences between the two.

If I might ask, what is the 115 cab that they are selling it with. Eden has made a wide variety of cabs over the years. The prefix and model number should be on the backplate of the cab along by the input/output jacks. Any of the Eden Cabs will sound good with this amp. In the D-series amps the XLT has a built-in low-mid hump which gives a bass great presence and definition. The XST cabs on the other hand have a much flatter frequency across the spectrum between the roll-off points on each end and they have a tighter and more focused bottom end able to play the some of the fundamentals on the B string. If you like the XLT sound you can get close to that sound using an XST cab by slightly boosting the low-mids. It's not exactly the same sound as an XLT cab but close.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

There is a fairly long thread on the Eden.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/eden-e300t.462660/
Some of the links are dead because the Eden forum is gone. It's claimed the E300T is basically the same amp as the Fame/Ashton/Smarvo BV300. So AFAIK it's a budget amp. Probably best to avoid.

I would rather have a Buster head than a combo. I don't think it's a great idea to have a tube amp mechanically coupled to a speaker cab. Also a tube combo will be a real handful to cart around (heavy and awkward).

I have a Buster head. To my ears it's voiced more like the Strategy and Prodigy than the D180, 400, or 400+. I own all of these except the Prodigy. If I could only keep one, it would probably be the 400. The Strategy is my least favorite and Buster is slightly more to my liking.

Many describe the Buster as sounding stiff and solid state. Some words I would use to describe it: lean, warm, boxey, diffuse (unfocused). I think Buster sounds best pushed right to the edge. At the limit it develops some nice tubey qualities. However, IMHO it's best to avoid pushing it over the limit as it does not do drive particularly well.

Don't confuse the E-300T amp with the Eden E-300 amp that is a solid state amp and an entry-level into Eden gear. There was absolutely nothing cheap about the E-300T introduced in 2008. It's name changed to the WTB-300V in 2009 and with the name change came different cosmetics. Interior of the WTB300V was identical to the E-300T. One of the very cool things about it was the ability to adjust the bias on each tube individually. Original price of that amp was between $1500 and $1700.

Here's pics of both the Eden E-300T amp and the Eden WTB-300V amp. Cosmetics and names are the only changes in the amp itself:
E-300T - 300-watt rms, all-valve amp:

WTB-300V - 300-watt rms, all valve amp:

I think perhaps you are confusing the E-300T tube amp with the E-300, which is an entry-level Eden solid state amp that was introduced at in the last quarter of 2011.

E-300 is an Entry Level Eden amp that puts out 300-watts rms into 4Ω - Street Price is $249:


Easy to confuse if you forget to put the T on the E-300T. The T stands for tube. Or the V in the WTB-300V, with the V standing for Valve.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Well, I decided to go with the Mesa. I pick it up tomorrow. I know I like the tone and I think it might be a better built amp. The Eden is made over seas. Thank you for everyone’s input.

I'm sure you will enjoy it @Dirthill. Mesa amps and cabs are very well made and reliable. If you haven't had tube amps before, they do need to be treated differently than a solid state amp which you just turn on and go. Of primary importance is the rule that you need to ALWAYS be sure you have your speaker cab plugged in before turning on the amp. Unless there is a dummy load included in the design, you can damage the amp by trying to play through it without the speaker cab plugged in. Also tubes do wear out but normally not very quickly. Preamp tubes seem to last the longest because they are not working as hard as the power tubes are. Never presume a tube is bad. Always test it if tubes are suspect. Otherwise you will sink a bunch of money into tube replacements when the tubes may not even be the problem. I would expect that you will get good service out of it as long as it doesn't already have some hidden problems, which is always a possibility when buying used gear. And even if you do, I'm sure @agedhorse can provide some help or direction. We are really lucky to have him active here on Talkbass.

Regarding the build quality of Eden amps, they are known for not only their great sound but also their durability. When the Eden forum was still around there was even a section on it for horror stories about accidents and abuse that Eden amps survived. One of those was about an Eden WT800 that fell out of the back of the roadie's truck and got run over by the trailing vehicle. Besides the scratches and a few dents in the chassis, it performed fine at the concert that night. Another one was pulled out of a house that burned down but the amp still worked. Those were probably the two most extreme examples, but they are very durable.

Eden did actually have a problem for a few months in about 2010 or 2011. Suddenly a whole lot of Eden amps were dead on arrival. Come to find out they had moved their production facility and a lot of their technicians did not move with them. It seemed like their Quality Control department was entirely missing and customer service was replacing a lot of gear. That's when the move to manufacture them in China was made. Delivery of Eden gear became slow after that as they double checked every amp going out the door until the made-in-China models started arriving in the states.

Eden had been manufacturing their Nemesis series of amps at the Chinese factory for about 10 or 15-years by that point and we virtually never were contacted on the Eden Forum with a problem with the Nemesis amps. So they had a factory that was already used to making Eden gear to the design specs and skilled technicians doing the work with excellent quality control. So they were handed the line of WT and WTX amps to make there, along with the Nemesis line. As soon as those "Made in China" amps started showing up in the states, the defect and dead-on-arrival problems totally disappeared. Eden amps have been manufactured at that factory ever since. I don't believe they ever made the tube amps though and the few I've actually seen do not have "made in China" on them. If it is the E-300T amp I know it was not made in China. The E300T amp was only made in 2008 a couple of years before the manufacturing move to China, so there's no chance that was made in China. The same amp was made with a different name, WTB300V for 3 more years, and it's possible that last year it was made. I just don't recall and that amp disappeared about the time the amp manufacturing move to China was made.

In any case the "Made in China" stamp on the back of Eden gear, it is actually a sign of quality that may seem counter-intuitive to you. I worked for a fly-fishing company for 27-years and I recall when they moved their reel making shop from England to China along with a number of technicians to work with and advise them for a year and a half. They had some hiccups of course but the company that bought the reel manufacturing had a reputation of being the best aluminum anodizers in the world. And, sure enough, when the CNC machined reels came back to us, the anodized finish was better the one that had been made when the factory was in England. I knew the reels would be fine because we shipped them the machines and programs that produce them, but the anodization was definitely a step up. The end result was the "made in China" reels were better than the ones we made in England.

So just because it says "made in China" on the back doesn't necessarily mean it's lower quality. The trick is you have to have regular follow up with the factory at least a couple of times a year to make sure everything is proceeding as planned and no substitutions of parts or methods are being made. I think it was Lane Baldwin who made those trips to China for Eden, but whoever it was, they kept them producing top quality amps.

So, if I were to buy an Eden WT amp from that time period and I could choose between the Made in China and the Made in Mundelein (Chicago area) one, I absolutely would choose the made in China one. My Eden TN226 (225-watts into 4Ω) is a made-in-China amp and it is probably the most used amp I actually have because the group I played with typically hosted this small brewpub's Open Mic Night over 40 Friday nights a year. It's a sweet (and light) little amp but it's my small venue rig and I don't use it anywhere but small venues.

Rock on!

 

[Dirthill]

I'm sure you will enjoy it @Dirthill. Mesa amps and cabs are very well made and reliable. If you haven't had tube amps before, they do need to be treated differently than a solid state amp which you just turn on and go. Of primary importance is the rule that you need to ALWAYS be sure you have your speaker cab plugged in before turning on the amp. Unless there is a dummy load included in the design, you can damage the amp by trying to play through it without the speaker cab plugged in. Also tubes do wear out but normally not very quickly. Preamp tubes seem to last the longest because they are not working as hard as the power tubes are. Never presume a tube is bad. Always test it if tubes are suspect. Otherwise you will sink a bunch of money into tube replacements when the tubes may not even be the problem. I would expect that you will get good service out of it as long as it doesn't already have some hidden problems, which is always a possibility when buying used gear. And even if you do, I'm sure @agedhorse can provide some help or direction. We are really lucky to have him active here on Talkbass.

Regarding the build quality of Eden amps, they are known for not only their great sound but also their durability. When the Eden forum was still around there was even a section on it for horror stories about accidents and abuse that Eden amps survived. One of those was about an Eden WT800 that fell out of the back of the roadie's truck and got run over by the trailing vehicle. Besides the scratches and a few dents in the chassis, it performed fine at the concert that night. Another one was pulled out of a house that burned down but the amp still worked. Those were probably the two most extreme examples, but they are very durable.

Eden did actually have a problem for a few months in about 2010 or 2011. Suddenly a whole lot of Eden amps were dead on arrival. Come to find out they had moved their production facility and a lot of their technicians did not move with them. It seemed like their Quality Control department was entirely missing and customer service was replacing a lot of gear. That's when the move to manufacture them in China was made. Delivery of Eden gear became slow after that as they double checked every amp going out the door until the made-in-China models started arriving in the states.

Eden had been manufacturing their Nemesis series of amps at the Chinese factory for about 10 or 15-years by that point and we virtually never were contacted on the Eden Forum with a problem with the Nemesis amps. So they had a factory that was already used to making Eden gear to the design specs and skilled technicians doing the work with excellent quality control. So they were handed the line of WT and WTX amps to make there, along with the Nemesis line. As soon as those "Made in China" amps started showing up in the states, the defect and dead-on-arrival problems totally disappeared. Eden amps have been manufactured at that factory ever since. I don't believe they ever made the tube amps though and the few I've actually seen do not have "made in China" on them. If it is the E-300T amp I know it was not made in China. The E300T amp was only made in 2008 a couple of years before the manufacturing move to China, so there's no chance that was made in China. The same amp was made with a different name, WTB300V for 3 more years, and it's possible that last year it was made. I just don't recall and that amp disappeared about the time the amp manufacturing move to China was made.

In any case the "Made in China" stamp on the back of Eden gear, it is actually a sign of quality that may seem counter-intuitive to you. I worked for a fly-fishing company for 27-years and I recall when they moved their reel making shop from England to China along with a number of technicians to work with and advise them for a year and a half. They had some hiccups of course but the company that bought the reel manufacturing had a reputation of being the best aluminum anodizers in the world. And, sure enough, when the CNC machined reels came back to us, the anodized finish was better the one that had been made when the factory was in England. I knew the reels would be fine because we shipped them the machines and programs that produce them, but the anodization was definitely a step up. The end result was the "made in China" reels were better than the ones we made in England.

So just because it says "made in China" on the back doesn't necessarily mean it's lower quality. The trick is you have to have regular follow up with the factory at least a couple of times a year to make sure everything is proceeding as planned and no substitutions of parts or methods are being made. I think it was Lane Baldwin who made those trips to China for Eden, but whoever it was, they kept them producing top quality amps.

So, if I were to buy an Eden WT amp from that time period and I could choose between the Made in China and the Made in Mundelein (Chicago area) one, I absolutely would choose the made in China one. My Eden TN226 (225-watts into 4Ω) is a made-in-China amp and it is probably the most used amp I actually have because the group I played with typically hosted this small brewpub's Open Mic Night over 40 Friday nights a year. It's a sweet (and light) little amp but it's my small venue rig and I don't use it anywhere but small venues.

Rock on!

I have always liked Eden stuff. Well there old stuff. I was gasing for a WT800 for awhile. I don’t know too much about newer Eden amps. I didn’t even know E300T existed until I stumbled across one for sale recently. With not much information/reviews on the E300T I thought the Mesa was a better choice. I just picked up the Mesa. So far with just a quick tweaking I love it. And I think I got a pretty good deal. $500 It just needs the top handle.

 

[murphy]

Congratulations on your amp....Looks like fun

I have always liked Eden stuff. Well there old stuff. I was gasing for a WT800 for awhile. I don’t know too much about newer Eden amps. I didn’t even know E300T existed until I stumbled across one for sale recently. With not much information/reviews on the E300T I thought the Mesa was a better choice. I just picked up the Mesa. So far with just a quick tweaking I love it. And I think I got a pretty good deal. $500 It just needs the top handle.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

This thread made me look up when I got my used but great condition Montrose, Mn./ David era WT-500 Highwayman amp & XLT-410 cabinet.

Bought it 5 years ago this coming February . It’s my never leave the house rig but it’s still firing up & delivering.

I was concerned about parts availability then & assumed that risk but it’s been wonderful . If the amp retires itself the cabinet will hopefully live on, although original drivers are expensive & rare if they fail.

Old gear , like most things in life , are a gamble.

 

[Pep]

I purchased an Eden D112XLTS Combo with an extra 12” Eden Bass Cab about 7 years ago and the only thing I’ve had to replace is a noisy fan.

 

[Darbitrator]

Speaking of Eden repairs, I've been using the WTX500 and WTX264 heads for a number of years and am very happy with them. But recently the standby light on the 264 remains lit after being turned on and the amp does not produce any sound. Any troubleshooting tips before I start looking for a local tech? Thanks.