Mesa WD800 vs Ampeg SVT

[Frankie Fender]

Coming out of left field here, but I recently picked up the new Darkglass Microtubes 900v2 as a back up for my Fender Super Bassman and for silent practice. I wasn't looking to find a class D that would sound like the SB but rather something that would be fun and interesting in it's own right. That being said I was pleasantly surprised that the M900v2 delivered many of the same qualities that I enjoy from the SB, namely a huge amount of clean headroom with a touch of crunch.

If/when someone discovers the holy grail of amplification that cops a 300 watt tube power section in a compact, lightweight form, we will all know about it and it will probably crash the TB servers from the tsunami of threads that will ensue.

Next up for consideration will be the GK Legacy series, it has caught my eye in spite of no tube, but my TH cured me of that prejudice.

 

[InhumanResource]

Hey fellow bassers
I am looking to buy a Class D backup to my SVT ( 2pro) and I gave it a go with a few others on the market but couldn't find one that didnt sound thin compared to the thickness of a tube power section .

The one to come closest for me was the GK MBF800. But still .... in the end too thin of a sound, and when pushed , lost definition and sounded kind nasally.
But I feel that Class Ds do have enough " slam " and punch , so my concern is not in that area , tone wise.

And I pass the preamp when comparing, plugging into the effects return to hear only what the power section is doing.

Which brings me to the conclusion of looking at the WD800 because of its power amp dampening feature .
before when I was comparing class Ds , I tried 6 different ones , but none of those were the Mesa Class D's .... simply because I gave up at #6 and didnt order anything after that.

Can anyone that's been able to compare both give some insight to if the technology behind Cass Ds have finally caught up to match tube thickness and dynamics?

Cheers Mates!

Does it need to be a class D? The SVT 6PRO does a good imitation of the real thing and even at 40 lbs is a lot lighter than your 2PRO.

 

[KaseOfBass]

@TubeDood pick any class D that you like (the WD-800 would be my choice) and see if you can find a Broughton SV-Pre pedal. It's the Ampeg sound in a stomp box. It's an amazing pedal.

https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/sv-pre

Nice! First I had heard of this and I'm very interested, thanks for posting! I'm not unhappy with the SCR-DI that I use on occasion, but that SV-Pre looks awesome.

 

[bucephylus]

Q1: Are there any two different amps out there that sound EXACTLY like each other.

My experience is the answer is no.

So, in that respect, the OP question is moot. Players who have a preference for the SVT will NEVER be inclined to replace it; simply because no other amp sounds just like it. Seems kind of obvious.

Can you do gigs with the WD800 or fill-in-the-blank other amp instead of an SVT? Yes. Many players do that on a regular basis. Do other amps sound righteous on their own merits? Yes, many of them.

Why are we so obsessed these days with being conformist? Used to be that the thing was to use your ears and figure out what works on your own. Guess I must have become a curmudgeon.

Back to your regularly scheduled pointless debate.

 

[Frankie Fender]

Q1: Are there any two different amps out there that sound EXACTLY like each other.

My experience is the answer is no.

So, in that respect, the OP question is moot. Players who have a preference for the SVT will NEVER be inclined to replace it; simply because no other amp sounds just like it. Seems kind of obvious.

Can you do gigs with the WD800 or fill-in-the-blank other amp instead of an SVT? Yes. Many players do that on a regular basis. Do other amps sound righteous on their own merits? Yes, many of them.

Why are we so obsessed these days with being conformist? Used to be that the thing was to use your ears and figure out what works on your own. Guess I must have become a curmudgeon.

Back to your regularly scheduled pointless debate.

Evidently someone here does not share in our passion to discuss bass gear.

 

[JimmyM]

Q1: Are there any two different amps out there that sound EXACTLY like each other.

My experience is the answer is no.

So, in that respect, the OP question is moot. Players who have a preference for the SVT will NEVER be inclined to replace it; simply because no other amp sounds just like it. Seems kind of obvious.

Can you do gigs with the WD800 or fill-in-the-blank other amp instead of an SVT? Yes. Many players do that on a regular basis. Do other amps sound righteous on their own merits? Yes, many of them.

Why are we so obsessed these days with being conformist? Used to be that the thing was to use your ears and figure out what works on your own. Guess I must have become a curmudgeon.

Back to your regularly scheduled pointless debate.

My only comment on that would be don't mistake a whole lot of people liking certain pieces of gear with being conformist.

 

[vivaknoxvegas]

@Bardolphus jump on the Broughton site early on that release day and you might get an SV-Pre. They’re pretty limited to begin with but I’m sure more will pop up in the used market too.

 

[nostatic]

My only comment on that would be don't mistake a whole lot of people liking certain pieces of gear with being conformist.

True. But also don't discount the look of an amp coloring how one perceives the sound/feel.

Humans aren't logical. And that's OK - all the more reason to play what you love rather than what specs one thinks they need. This is one reason I react strongly whenever the "double blind testing" is trotted out. Since I don't play a gig double-blind, I know what I'm playing and that can influence my playing - be it look, feel, and/or sound. At the end of the day, if you don't like your gear (for whatever reason), you're not going to play your best and likely will flip it.

 

[bucephylus]

My only comment on that would be don't mistake a whole lot of people liking certain pieces of gear with being conformist.

Presuming they use their own ears and arrive at that decision on its own merits, you would be correct. You know I’ve worked with the SVT a bunch and respect it; so, I’m not dissing the amp. Making gear choices based on hearsay and popularity contest alone would come under the conformist heading.

Not unlike going out and buying a car. At least drive a few of the options and make up your own mind.

 

[bucephylus]

Evidently someone here does not share in our passion to discuss bass gear.

Au contraire, discussions are great. Over the years, for example, @pfschim and I have debated various merits of different amps. We’ve generally come to different conclusions; but, the discussions are always interesting. The idea is to exchange ideas and experience.

When the “gear discussion” becomes more along the lines of “this is the ONLY amp, and you’re a moron if you don’t get it,” then, I’m out.

This current thread asked about one amp vs another. Fair enough question; but, the appropriate conversation is how that works +/-, not how one of them DOESN’T work. The latter comes under the heading of my minds made up, don’t bother me with the information. If your mind is already made up, AND you haven’t gigged both amps, how are any comments going to be constructive gear discussion?

 

[JimmyM]

True. But also don't discount the look of an amp coloring how one perceives the sound/feel.

About that...I don't particularly care for the all-black look of the SVT-CL and 810e Classic, especially when compared to the AV and Heritage grillcloth, but I'll darn sure be happy to play them on rental gigs!

Humans aren't logical. And that's OK - all the more reason to play what you love rather than what specs one thinks they need. This is one reason I react strongly whenever the "double blind testing" is trotted out. Since I don't play a gig double-blind, I know what I'm playing and that can influence my playing - be it look, feel, and/or sound. At the end of the day, if you don't like your gear (for whatever reason), you're not going to play your best and likely will flip it.

Yep, that's true. And considering what gear costs, I find it hard to believe that people would buy gear they didn't like and not apply logic to buying it. Then again, I did spend a couple hundy on a dilapidated bass just because it had the Realistic logo on it...but it turned out to be super once I got it in playing condition

 

[JimmyM]

Au contraire, discussions are great. Over the years, for example, @pfschim and I have debated various merits of different amps. We’ve generally come to different conclusions; but, the discussions are always interesting. The idea is to exchange ideas and experience.

When the “gear discussion” becomes more along the lines of “this is the ONLY amp, and you’re a moron if you don’t get it,” then, I’m out.

This current thread asked about one amp vs another. Fair enough question; but, the appropriate conversation is how that works +/-, not how one of them DOESN’T work. The latter comes under the heading of my minds made up, don’t bother me with the information. If your mind is already made up, AND you haven’t gigged both amps, how are any comments going to be constructive gear discussion?

Oh, it's very possible that someone could like the WD800 more than the SVT. Mesa hasn't lasted 50 years because they make gear musicians don't like. But in over 45 years of playing bass, I've yet to play any SS or hybrid that satisfied me as much as a tube amp and I haven't seen anything to change my mind. However, as old as I am, I certainly am on the lookout for lighter weight alternatives, and will be bringing a really cheap one to my gigs this weekend because they're outside and it's supposed to rain all weekend.

 

[bucephylus]

Oh, it's very possible that someone could like the WD800 more than the SVT. Mesa hasn't lasted 50 years because they make gear musicians don't like. But in over 45 years of playing bass, I've yet to play any SS or hybrid that satisfied me as much as a tube amp and I haven't seen anything to change my mind. However, as old as I am, I certainly am on the lookout for lighter weight alternatives, and will be bringing a really cheap one to my gigs this weekend because they're outside and it's supposed to rain all weekend.

Right. We all have our personal prefs; which tend to become more set with experience.

 

[bucephylus]

Oh, it's very possible that someone could like the WD800 more than the SVT. Mesa hasn't lasted 50 years because they make gear musicians don't like. But in over 45 years of playing bass, I've yet to play any SS or hybrid that satisfied me as much as a tube amp and I haven't seen anything to change my mind. However, as old as I am, I certainly am on the lookout for lighter weight alternatives, and will be bringing a really cheap one to my gigs this weekend because they're outside and it's supposed to rain all weekend.

But, that said, I am curious about one thing in your case, Jimmy. Does your Ampeg affiliation allow you to step outside of Ampeg gear? Reason for asking is that purely for backup situations like you describe, I think there are a bunch of interesting alternatives, which I haven’t seen you post much about. The WD800 would be one of those for sure. Bergantino, Demeter, Genzler, Aguilar etc are some others. Big world out there.

 

[Frankie Fender]

I for one love the SVT and it will always be a sort of standard for me. To my ears, that is one of the sounds I am chasing. Does that mean I own one now and want to gig it? Hell no. I’m beyond schlepping that kind of gear and for me it is no longer practical to even consider it.

I’m always looking for the lightweight alternative to get me there, which is why I gig a tone hammer 500 or 700 with my AE410 cab.

With the appearance of newer heads that promise the all tube sound and lighter, smaller cabs I continue to experiment, because most times even the 410 is too much. The HDN212 was one of my latest, but I flipped it because for the weight savings (15 lbs) compared to my 410 and the similar footprint it did not outweigh the fact (pun) it was not a sonic improvement and I couldn’t justify keeping a cab so expensive, but I am still on the lookout for a nice 210 or 212 to pair with the TH or my Walkabout. The SVT ship has sailed for me.

 

[JimmyM]

But, that said, I am curious about one thing in your case, Jimmy. Does your Ampeg affiliation allow you to step outside of Ampeg gear? Reason for asking is that purely for backup situations like you describe, I think there are a bunch of interesting alternatives, which I haven’t seen you post much about. The WD800 would be one of those for sure. Bergantino, Demeter, Genzler, Aguilar etc are some others. Big world out there.

Nobody there has ever demanded I be exclusive to Ampeg. And trust me, I've played plenty of the alternatives out there and owned a handful of non-Ampeg gear. I haven't played everything but I've played a lot. And the only non-Ampeg stuff I've ever liked sounded like Ampeg stuff, and the Ampeg stuff I have may not all be SVT's but it all sounds good to me. So I figure I'll cut out the middleman.

 

[pfschim]

I happen to really like tubes but am not willing to go the tube power amp route because I gig a lot and the severe weight penalty is not worth it. So my solution is a class D amp (Bergantino Forte) with a separate tube pre-amp (Noble). Best of both worlds.

man, that Noble really brings some nice flavor to all the amps I have used it with.

 

[Wasnex]

Evidently someone here does not share in our passion to discuss bass gear.

Nah, he's just pointing out something that's obviously being ignored.

My SVT8-Pro captures the SVTs mids and grind; my Mesa Titan captures more of the low mid push and feel. I can get sort of in the ballpark with my Genz Benz GBE1200 as well.

As far as which is closest to an SVT, it depends upon which SVT characteristic you think is most important and which SVT tone profile you are after. Despite what some claim, an SVT is not a one trick pony...it has at least two or three tricks .

 

[TubeDood]

Q1: Are there any two different amps out there that sound EXACTLY like each other.

My experience is the answer is no.

So, in that respect, the OP question is moot. Players who have a preference for the SVT will NEVER be inclined to replace it; simply because no other amp sounds just like it. Seems kind of obvious.

Can you do gigs with the WD800 or fill-in-the-blank other amp instead of an SVT? Yes. Many players do that on a regular basis. Do other amps sound righteous on their own merits? Yes, many of them.

Why are we so obsessed these days with being conformist? Used to be that the thing was to use your ears and figure out what works on your own. Guess I must have become a curmudgeon.

Back to your regularly scheduled pointless debate.

So wait... because I couldn't be talked into a different amp other than my paid for SVT , that makes me a conformist?

Do I need to drop 1k$ on another amp ?
No
Do I want to a/ b it against my SVT ?
Yes
Would I like something lighter to schlep to shows ?
Sure!
Could I be just fine at shows using my 200$ VTDI and in ear monitors !?
Probably ! .... as I've said , I've done it 3 times already.
Will anyone in the crowd notice ?
Not unless they're a tone snob like me.

I will wait till I come across one in a store since I'm already $732 in the hole for return shipping for gear.... and it's only June.
I'm 6'3 200lbs , and still kinda young , so I will schlep the SVT in between trying the DI Box and in ear monitor thing . And should I not like that I will start looking at amps again

To each their own my friend .

 

[agedhorse]

Am I butthurt that I had 2k$ sitting in my lap , ready to give it to Mesa for 2x12" speakers in a wooden box and they told me no ? Kinda....

Am I missing something here?

If I made any recommendation (one way or another), it's not just because we want to sell you a cabinet. If I don't think think a cabinet is a good choice because of your stated goals, I'm certainly not going to recommend something just to take your money. There maybe a better (or more appropriate) option for you and that's fine with me, I can't see how this would make you butt-hurt? If I've missed something, or something got taken out off context, I'm sorry.