Double Bass Methods for learning bass parts

[MartinBorgen]

Hi all.

I've recently started playing in a local youth symphony orchestra. While I have played for a long time in a Symphonic band, I've recently realised this requires some adaptation. Most apparent, for me anyway, is the approach to the bass parts. I've had huge troubles trying to figure out how to play, or rather; practise them in a way that will help me.

Given, we do play the real things, no simplifications, so It's not expected to be easy (Brahms Shicksalslied and Cesar Franck D-minor among others). But I've found that while I do practise the parts, they don't "stick". Today, at the first rehearsal of them, I realised that it's because I don't put them into a musical context. During the rehearsal, already through the first few bars, I realised a lot about the piece, and my approach to the notes I saw went through tremendous changes. Suddenly all the notes started to make sense - but it was too late. Those quirky parts were suddenly as foreign as the first time I saw them - the fingerings I had figured out before were impossible to execute. I was pretty much playing á primavista.

Now, I know what you think. Listen to the piece will make it all clear as... well, something very clear. Crystal. That's it. Now, naturally, playing something you've heard before is way easier. I could listen to a recording, I WILL do it in the future. But I won't always be able to. What I'm getting at, is how to approach an orchestral bass part, that you have never heard before (and won't be able to). I don't think we can say "look at the full score" either. We're given a bass part. That's it. Learn it decently enough for a rehearsal in a few days. How do you do?

 

[neilG]

It certainly helps to know the piece, but for the most part, one practices orchestra parts the same way as any other music. From what you say, I'm guessing that your level of playing is going to need to improve to make it all more comfortable. That's an assessment of your progress, not your talent. If you keep studying everything that leads to better technique, stamina and concentration (scales, arpeggios, etudes, solos) that, hopefully, a teacher is guiding you through, you'll eventually find all this much easier. Your most important task is not to be frustrated, and to get enjoyment out of whatever level you achieve for the performances. Enjoy the music. Playing well in an orchestra is a skill that can only be developed by doing it, and that's what youth orchestras are for.

 

[MartinBorgen]

Naturally, improving your level of playing will make most things easier. Perhaps I'm just not used enough to the repertoire. It's just that I did not play good even though I realy practised the parts - though in hindsight, I did not really practise it well; I mostly sawed through it and noted the places where I wanted different fingerings. I think I should have put more effort in making music of the parts. The fact that the hard and melodic parts stuck, but the semi-melodic parts didn't probably means I did not approach them as music but rather as a series of notes without a context, and hence did not register them.

/perhaps overly self critical music-student.

 

[David Potts]

When approaching a "new" bass part your previous experiences should give you a method of approach.

I quickly scan the parts for clues. Tempo indications, time signatures, key signatures, technically difficult-looking passages, passages that are slurred and have lots of expression indications, landmark events like ritardando, accelerando, subito ff and pp. I play the scale and arpeggio associated with the movement and passage. Difficult passages or fast runs I begin to practice very slowly, with all the associated expression markings. I identify difficulties, be they whole passages or right down to an awkward string crossing or shift. These I will play backwards as well as forwards, first as single notes regardless of how they actually appear in the part. I will also play the same notes using hook stroke or reverse hook stroke that put some spice into lazy fingers and shifts. Speed can come later, once I have strongly encrypted the passages in my brain. This is a very disciplined approach but proves that high quality slow practice gives stronger, faster results.

When I have heard the piece several times in rehearsal I can take note of tempos and tell which passages must be heard and which are accompaniments. Even those simple single notes, arco or pizz, can be important and should be played with as much musicianship as possible (just as though you are a voice in a choir). I might then reach for the Metronome ( a love/hate relationship).

Playing successfully in an ensemble, be it a chamber group or a massive orchestra, is quite complex and experience does count. You have to play in tune, in time, all the notes, musically and in the style of the music. You have to balance and hear your own sound with the overall section sound as well as try to observe (see and hear) much further afield, e.g. what the conductor and other sections are doing. Early or late entries and notes spilling over into rests are big no no's.

Good luck (and have lots of fun!!)

DP

 

[jaff]

Great summary! Thanks. Always enjoy your posts.

 

[MartinBorgen]

I've realised this entire reaction might be the surprise from how César Franck's symphony in D-minor (we only played last movement) looks so simple in the scores, with "easy notes" (whole, half and quarters mostly) but in reality requires so much more than that. That I practised the notes, and was shocked when I realised how much more it was to the piece than written, so to say.

 

[robobass]

Now, I know what you think. Listen to the piece will make it all clear as... well, something very clear. Crystal. That's it. Now, naturally, playing something you've heard before is way easier. I could listen to a recording, I WILL do it in the future. But I won't always be able to. What I'm getting at, is how to approach an orchestral bass part, that you have never heard before (and won't be able to). I don't think we can say "look at the full score" either. We're given a bass part. That's it. Learn it decently enough for a rehearsal in a few days. How do you do?

True, you won't always be able to listen to a recording, but in our modern world it's pretty rare. If you don't have a budget for CDs and downloads, try YouTube! Does your local library have CDs? What about your teacher? Even full scores of standard classical works are available online for free or almost free.

As a beginner I spent lots of time with recordings. First just listening while following my bass part, then trying to play along. I highly recommend this!

I remember in my youth certain old school players discouraging the use of recordings to learn new music. Does anyone still say this? I find it totally silly.

 

[weary gill]

You're asking for trouble if you try to play passages in context before having each pitch located and in tune.

 

[MartinBorgen]

You're asking for trouble if you try to play passages in context before having each pitch located and in tune.

That comes under sight-reading, I believe

I never said I was trying to either.

True, you won't always be able to listen to a recording, but in our modern world it's pretty rare. If you don't have a budget for CDs and downloads, try YouTube! Does your local library have CDs? What about your teacher? Even full scores of standard classical works are available online for free or almost free.

As a beginner I spent lots of time with recordings. First just listening while following my bass part, then trying to play along. I highly recommend this!

I remember in my youth certain old school players discouraging the use of recordings to learn new music. Does anyone still say this? I find it totally silly.

Previously unperformed pieces and obscure pieces, for example. I mean, it's stupid (and rude) to make your playing quality suffer from some stubborn reluctance to listen to a recording, but I also don't like the "Have no Idea what context it is => listen to a recording and just copy" - approach. I know you don't mean that I (or anyone else) should simply mindlessly copy something we hear, but that's what you get first from listening, whether you want it or not. Understanding what we hear is rather working backwards, i.e. you first get a complete way of playing it served on a plate, all inclusive, and then you need to go back and re-invent your own way of doing it.

EDIT: I think what I'm aiming for is close to this. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f5/re...ferent-eras-composers-classical-music-920689/

 

[robobass]

...
Previously unperformed pieces and obscure pieces, for example. I mean, it's stupid (and rude) to make your playing quality suffer from some stubborn reluctance to listen to a recording, but I also don't like the "Have no Idea what context it is => listen to a recording and just copy" - approach. I know you don't mean that I (or anyone else) should simply mindlessly copy something we hear, but that's what you get first from listening, whether you want it or not. Understanding what we hear is rather working backwards, i.e. you first get a complete way of playing it served on a plate, all inclusive, and then you need to go back and re-invent your own way of doing it...

I'm not sure which side of the argument you're on. I just think that if you face performing a difficult and unfamiliar (to you at least) orchestral piece then studying the part with a recording first will make that first rehearsal way less of a struggle. Mindlessly copying or not, you'll be able to take in a lot more of what's going on around you than if show up without having heard the piece at all, and you'll have a jump on getting all the stylistic stuff together during subsequent rehearsals. Works for me anyway

 

[MartinBorgen]

I'm not sure if I'm on any side of the argument. I'm just presenting a problem... which might not even be a problem... - As you can see, I problematise conclusions a lot. I mean, is a conclusion even nessecary? As long as we get some food for thought? If we can get a syntaxis out of it all as well, all the better.

As to your approach, I must agree that it's what seem to be working best, and is definitely the one I will follow (and have been following) for the serious stuff.

 

[Square Bear]

for someone with very little orchestra experience, go ahead and try to emulate what you hear on a recording. really guys? if we were talking about jazz, wouldn't the approach be unanimously agreed upon that one should listen to the greats and emulate what they're doing? it's helpful, and will eventually develop into an informed and organic musical approach, even if it seems disingenuous at first.

obscure pieces with no recording? guess you're on your own. just accept the challenge.