• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Mex vs USA fender... discuss.

#81
buldog5151bass said:
Not an equal comparison, but a fair one. For guitars, cheaper wood will be heavier, and have more defects, such as discoloration, knots and bark inclusions (especially in maple). Cheaper wood will likely have more crooked grain (not great for necks).

Weight is probably the number one reason people won't play certain basses. Cosmetics is also important for most of us. Compare the grain on a MIM sunburst to that of an MIA. That's also why higher grades of bass bodies are generally made from fewer, and better matches pieces. I've seen MIM bodies made from 5 pieces of wood, plus a top and bottom veneer.

I won't even get into the tone wood debate.

And as others have said, it is a fact that MIMs use inferior hardware.
Click to expand...

I pretty much already said this. I mentioned that heavier, not as visually pleasing pieces, multi-piece bodies, etc. are generally used for cheaper instruments. But also said that weight and/or aesthetics doesn't necessarily mean superior sound. In the 70's everyone said a heavier instrument resulted in a fatter sound with more sustain. Now all those guys who played those boat anchors back then cant sling such a heavy bass or guitar anymore and not it's all about the lightest instruments, and as a result now these have the best sustain and overall tone!

I also posted that 8.6lb '97 Squier Affinity that I clean dup for a buddy that feels and sounds amazing, and I've played 11+lb. Fenders from the 70's that sounded like poo, but people are paying high dollars for these days!

Then, as it's been mentioned over and over in other threads in addition to this one...there are plenty of boutique companies that go crazy with multi-piece bodies, all kinds of laminates and layers, etc., and they sound great and command a small fortune.

LOTS of this stuff is purely psychological.
 
#82
buldog5151bass said:
And as others have said, it is a fact that MIMs use inferior hardware.
Click to expand...

Inferior or just "not as nice, but still 100% functional, usable and durable?!" Theres a big difference.

I've come across and owned a lot fo MIM guitars and with the rare exception, all the hardware has been fully functional with no issues aside from maybe cleaning off some surface rust from age.

I'm not saying that the hardware (tuners, bridge) on an American Standard/American Professional isn't higher quality, lighter, more expensive, but that doesn't necessarily mean the MIM tuners and bridges are inferior.

Thats like saying the stock tires on your new truck are total crap because there are other tires on the market that cost cost 3-4 times as much. Sure those tires might actually be "better" (fill in whatever criteria you want to use to describe "better"), but it doesn't mean that those tires aren't going to get you where you need to go adequately and safely. But if you're the type to do a ton of off-roading (and I mean ACTUALLY off-road, not just make your truck look like you off-road with it!), drive in snow a lot, live in the mountains up a steep gravel or un-graded driveway, etc., then you might benefit from an upgrade. But like most of us who don't live in such extreme conditions, and/or aren't touring musicians who beat their gear up on the road night after night, the hardware on a MIM Standard is absolutely adequate, even if you're a weekend warrior player who plays a bar gig now and then, jams with your buddies in the garage now and then, or is a home/bedroom player.
 
#83
Vinnie Boombatz said:
Inferior or just "not as nice, but still 100% functional, usable and durable?!" Theres a big difference.

I've come across and owned a lot fo MIM guitars and with the rare exception, all the hardware has been fully functional with no issues aside from maybe cleaning off some surface rust from age.

I'm not saying that the hardware (tuners, bridge) on an American Standard/American Professional isn't higher quality, lighter, more expensive, but that doesn't necessarily mean the MIM tuners and bridges are inferior.

Thats like saying the stock tires on your new truck are total crap because there are other tires on the market that cost cost 3-4 times as much. Sure those tires might actually be "better" (fill in whatever criteria you want to use to describe "better"), but it doesn't mean that those tires aren't going to get you where you need to go adequately and safely. But if you're the type to do a ton of off-roading (and I mean ACTUALLY off-road, not just make your truck look like you off-road with it!), drive in snow a lot, live in the mountains up a steep gravel or un-graded driveway, etc., then you might benefit from an upgrade. But like most of us who don't live in such extreme conditions, and/or aren't touring musicians who beat their gear up on the road night after night, the hardware on a MIM Standard is absolutely adequate, even if you're a weekend warrior player who plays a bar gig now and then, jams with your buddies in the garage now and then, or is a home/bedroom player.
Click to expand...



CAR ANALOGY. BUCK IN THE JAR, PLEASE. OR A POUND AS THE CASE MAY BE.

4649182710_1cda764663_b.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vinnie Boombatz
#85
Vinnie Boombatz said:
Inferior or just "not as nice, but still 100% functional, usable and durable?!" Theres a big difference.

I've come across and owned a lot fo MIM guitars and with the rare exception, all the hardware has been fully functional with no issues aside from maybe cleaning off some surface rust from age.

I'm not saying that the hardware (tuners, bridge) on an American Standard/American Professional isn't higher quality, lighter, more expensive, but that doesn't necessarily mean the MIM tuners and bridges are inferior.

Thats like saying the stock tires on your new truck are total crap because there are other tires on the market that cost cost 3-4 times as much. Sure those tires might actually be "better" (fill in whatever criteria you want to use to describe "better"), but it doesn't mean that those tires aren't going to get you where you need to go adequately and safely. But if you're the type to do a ton of off-roading (and I mean ACTUALLY off-road, not just make your truck look like you off-road with it!), drive in snow a lot, live in the mountains up a steep gravel or un-graded driveway, etc., then you might benefit from an upgrade. But like most of us who don't live in such extreme conditions, and/or aren't touring musicians who beat their gear up on the road night after night, the hardware on a MIM Standard is absolutely adequate, even if you're a weekend warrior player who plays a bar gig now and then, jams with your buddies in the garage now and then, or is a home/bedroom player.
Click to expand...

Inferior as in ... Inferior - not as good.

No one is saying MIMs are not usable. That wasn't the question - the issue was which is better. I've seen people gig with Affinities, and kill it. But they are not as good, or consistent. That is a fact. Whether it is worth it is up to you.

As to your car analogy, even if you are driving straight down a flat road at 55 mph, there is a different between a bare bones, bottom trim line car, and a car with the top trim line and all the extras.
 
#89
buldog5151bass said:
Sometimes I watch stuff like this, and can't decide if I should quit work and practice 20 hours a day, or burn everything in my wood stove and quit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty humbling. He's even got great guitar face.

Reminds me of the time a kid beat me at chess repeatedly in just a handful of moves. That must have been around 1985. I never played again.

Although I will never be able to shred like this kid, I figure I can still profit from his ability provided I can sign him to a long-term management deal.
But I need some compelling bait for his trap. Anyone have any ideas? I know it is not the most original angle, but I'm thinking -- women?
 
#90
Son of Wobble said:
Yeah, pretty humbling. He's even got great guitar face.

Reminds me of the time a kid beat me at chess repeatedly in just a handful of moves. That must have been around 1985. I never played again.

Although I will never be able to shred like this kid, I figure I can still profit from his ability provided I can sign him to a long-term management deal.
But I need some compelling bait for his trap. Anyone have any ideas? I know it is not the most original angle, but I'm thinking -- women?
Click to expand...

Candy? Happy Meal? Unmarked van with blacked out windows?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Son of Wobble
#91
buldog5151bass said:
Inferior as in ... Inferior - not as good.

No one is saying MIMs are not usable. That wasn't the question - the issue was which is better. I've seen people gig with Affinities, and kill it. But they are not as good, or consistent. That is a fact. Whether it is worth it is up to you.

As to your car analogy, even if you are driving straight down a flat road at 55 mph, there is a different between a bare bones, bottom trim line car, and a car with the top trim line and all the extras.
Click to expand...

There's PLENTY of hardware that's FAR SUPERIOR to the stock hardware the comes on MIA Fenders. MIA hardware isn't the be-all, end-all of hardware!

Which is better? All depends on the intended use, and dare I say that the overwhelming majority THINKS that spending there money on more expensive hardware will make their bass better, or make them a better player. Hilarious.

Also, just because something costs more, doesn't mean it's better.

As far as the car analogy, I was referring to tires, and didn't even mention trim levels, etc., but that was a nice try on your part.
 
#92
Picton said:
Sure.

I think people who pay a lot for something often convince themselves they love it. Often, not always.

Marketers know this, of course.
Click to expand...

And, people often do the exact same thing when they buy the cheaper product.

As I always say, if you are unable to tell the difference, buy the cheaper one. Although, I think at this point I should change “unable” to “incapable.”
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Son of Wobble
#93
mdogs said:
And, people often do the exact same thing when they buy the cheaper product.
Click to expand...

Glad you flagged this, since selection bias obviously does not only apply to high-priced goods; one can "fool themselves" at low price points, too.
Although, it does beg the question : If you are adequately "fooled" by yourself in such a situation, is there really any downside?

A somewhat analogous question: Those who say "you can't run away from your problems" -- on whose authority do they make this claim? And how do purport to know just how fast I can run?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dukeorock
#94
Son of Wobble said:
I want the tires this kid is rollin on


Click to expand...


I dont see that kid complaining about the nut
Son of Wobble said:
I want the tires this kid is rollin on


Click to expand...


I dont see this kid complaining about, or being held back by the wide nut width in relation to the small size of his hands. Take that as a lesson to those that say they can ONLY play one type of nut width, one fretboard radius, one scale length, etc.
 
#95
Vinnie Boombatz said:
There's PLENTY of hardware that's FAR SUPERIOR to the stock hardware the comes on MIA Fenders. MIA hardware isn't the be-all, end-all of hardware!

Which is better? All depends on the intended use, and dare I say that the overwhelming majority THINKS that spending there money on more expensive hardware will make their bass better, or make them a better player. Hilarious.

Also, just because something costs more, doesn't mean it's better.

As far as the car analogy, I was referring to tires, and didn't even mention trim levels, etc., but that was a nice try on your part.
Click to expand...

No one said MIAs are the be all of basses, just that they are better, objectively, than MIMs. Not because it is more expensive, but because it has objectively better materials.

You want tires. Take the same car with new cheap tires and new better tires. Even on a smooth road, the car will ride and handle better.
 
#96
buldog5151bass said:
No one said MIAs are the be all of basses, just that they are better, objectively, than MIMs. Not because it is more expensive, but because it has objectively better materials.

You want tires. Take the same car with new cheap tires and new better tires. Even on a smooth road, the car will ride and handle better.
Click to expand...

Well, what if you put even BETTER tires on that car that you just put the tires that were only JUST BETTER, then you'd have an even smoother and better handling vehicle, right? But what would happen if and even BETTER tire than that came out? I guess you gotta ditch those now inferior tires and pony up for those new ones simply because they are BETTER! See where I'm going with all this? Diminishing returns eventually, but really, please don't let me stop you from emptying your pockets! There's always going to be that group of people that just has to have what they perceive as the best of everything, regardless of price. If tuners and bridges are your vice in that regard, have at it!

Also, you're theory here really isn't the same. If the "inferior" MIM tuners (your description, not mine) turned smooth, were stable and kept your bass perfectly in tune just like the more expensive tuners, are you still getting any real benefit over shelling out for the more expensive ones? Maybe the newer ones are a little lighter, maybe a little smoother, they look slicker and more polished, but still keep that bass in tune the same exact way the MIM tuners did. Instead of using the tire analogy, I'll use the analogy of the guy who say, replaces the shifter knob on his car with a super expensive, high-end carbon fiber shifter knob.
 
Last edited:
#97
Vinnie Boombatz said:
Well, what if you put even BETTER tires on that car that you just put the tires that were only JUST BETTER, then you'd have an even smoother and better handling vehicle, right? But what would happen if and even BETTER tire than that came out? I guess you gotta ditch those now inferior tires and pony up for those new ones simply because they are BETTER! See where I'm going with all this? Diminishing returns eventually, but really, please don't let me stop you from emptying your pockets! There's always going to be that group of people that just has to have what they perceive as the best of everything, regardless of price. If tuners and bridges are your vice in that regard, have at it!

Also, you're theory here really isn't the same. If the "inferior" MIM tuners (your description, not mine) turned smooth, were stable and kept your bass perfectly in tune just like the more expensive tuners, are you still getting any real benefit over shelling out for the more expensive ones? Maybe the newer ones are a little lighter, maybe a little smoother, they look slicker and more polished, but still keep that bass in tune the same exact way the MIM tuners did. Instead of using the tire analogy, I'll use the analogy of the guy who say, replaces the shifter knob on his car with a super expensive, high-end carbon fiber shifter knob.
Click to expand...

Please lower your blood pressure. I already said the MIM is a good instrument. If you are happy with it, fine. I do find your defensive posture (and the fact you keep ignoring the only issue - is one better than the other) kind of amusing. Peace.
 
#99
Son of Wobble said:
There's a button upper right to "unfollow" threads that start to bug you.

I wouldn't really eject ya from the car, though, Bud!

My comment simply follows of the preordained script of MIM vs MIA threads, which invariably include both
car analogies, and accompanying groans about the irrelevance of car analogies.


No way out of this game, I'm afraid, as we are all just puppets in a tragic closed circle of hell known as TB.
Click to expand...

I’m familiar with the unfollow button, thanks. I’m in agreement with you on this thread topic, and especially the tired sad car analogies, which is why I used it. To contribute my fair necessary share to the thread ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Son of Wobble

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back