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Mic for Live, Sending to FOH.

Count Bassie

Count Bassie

Supporting Member
Jun 10, 2006
16,786
64,504
Smithfield, RI
#1
I'm using an old GK 400RB, and the only Direct Out is 1/4" phone jack, and there's no option for post EQ. So I'm looking to mic my cab and send that to foh instead.
Doesn't need to be boutique or high-end, U just want good, accurate signal. I want to hear in the mains what I'm hearing in my amp.
Thanks for your time.
 
#2
Personally I would go for something like a preamp pedal, they xlr output and they can be powered by phantom power from the board. But if you have your mind set on a mic, electro voice pl20 or re20 is an old school standard. Or any good kick drum mic like a shure b52 or akg d112. Probably could use something like a shure b56 too.
Stay away from condensers in live applications they will pick up more than just the amp.

Someone might recommend a cheaper mic light a shure sm57 but you don’t want to use it on a bass amp because they start rolling off bass at about 110hz at 12 db per octave. Roughly, I don’t have those specs memorized but that's what I seem to remember. You can go to the shure website for proper specs.

But cleanest option sonically would be a preamp pedal.
 
Last edited:
#3
AK Bass Guy said:
Personally I would go for something like a preamp pedal, they xlr output and they can be powered by phantom power from the board. But if you have your mind set on a mic, electro voice pl20 or re20 is an old school standard. Or any good kick drum mic like a shure b52 or akg d112. Probably could use something like a shure b56 too.
Stay away from condensers in live applications they will pick up more than just the amp.

Someone might recommend a cheaper mic light a shure sm57 but you don’t want to use it on a bass amp because they start rolling off bass at about 110hz at 12 db per octave. Roughly, I don’t have those specs memorized but that's what I seem to remember. You can go to the shure website for proper specs.

But cleanest option sonically would be a preamp pedal.
Click to expand...
Right for the preamp pedal, I've got one. But the EQ that's important in this case is from the amp, and I want that going to the board.
But thanks for the mic recs, duly noted!
 
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#4
This is the frequency response of an SM57 and an SM58:
Sm57_Vs_Sm58_Frequency_Chart--1024x655.gif



For many situations they work surprisingly well, but neither would be my first choice for a stage mic sending to FOH. A lager diaphragm dynamic mic like the Shure SM7B or the EV RE-20 would be my preference for live use if a mic is required. That said, for live use I greatly prefer sending a DI to FOH as well as to an IEM split. The results tend to be far more predictable.

f_6dc5b58e-2f54-458f-9d8a-1720d1a520a3-en-US.png




ev_re20_large2.jpg
 
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#5
I've been reading that the EQ curve for the 57 is ideal due bass because it doesn't deliver a lot of lows.
Send to me that the bass, being more of a mid-range instrument than an actual bass instrument would benefit from the 57. And sound people don't want you pumping out too much low end because it becomes sufficient to manage.
And, I'm playing an Epiphone EB-3 a lot, and you definitely don't want to send all the low end to foh.
 
#6
Count Bassie said:
I've been reading that the EQ curve for the 57 is ideal due bass because it doesn't deliver a lot of lows.
Send to me that the bass, being more of a mid-range instrument than an actual bass instrument would benefit from the 57. And sound people don't want you pumping out too much low end because it becomes sufficient to manage.
And, I'm playing an Epiphone EB-3 a lot, and you definitely don't want to send all the low end to foh.
Click to expand...
Depends on many factors whether a 57 would work well on a bass cab going to foh.
Monitors or IEM, how boomy the room is, how loud is the drummer, how loud are any other amps on stage.

“Back in the day” sometimes a 57 frequency response was a good band aide for reducing low end noise going out to the house. But today the are things like IEMs, cardioid subs, amps in a box, digital consoles with parametric EQs on every channel…..

So just like anything environment is key. Generally speaking most engineers out at foh would ideally like a di send and a mic send so they can either use both or lean on one heavily and supplement with the other.
 
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#7
I have been using an AKG P2. It has a very flat response through the whole frequency range without any bass roll off. It doesn't have the typical dip in the mid frequencies that a lot of kick drum mics will have.

Not too expensive either, just about $120 new. I asked a couple of sound guys for their thoughts on it after shows. They seem to like it. Said it worked out great.

I have also used an sm57 for recording and live. It worked fine. I didn't notice a lot of low-end loss, but I don't run a lot of lows anyway.
 
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#8
silky smoove said:
This is the frequency response of an SM57 and an SM58:
View attachment 5481400

For many situations they work surprisingly well, but neither would be my first choice for a stage mic sending to FOH. A lager diaphragm dynamic mic like the Shure SM7B or the EV RE-20 would be my preference for live use if a mic is required. That said, for live use I greatly prefer sending a DI to FOH as well as to an IEM split. The results tend to be far more predictable.
Click to expand...

That curve is for a source 2 feet from the mic on axis. When you close mic a cabinet, the proximity effect brings up the low end of the mic considerably. In reality, that mic used to mic a bass cabinet has more low end than that curve suggests.
 
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#9
This subject interests me as well, but my reason is not for live stage use. I would like to mic some of my vintage amps. I have a "63 B-15 with the original JBL upgrade, and a bunch of other vintage Ampeg bass, and guitar amps going back to 1960 as well as a few other cool old amps.

My goal is to capture the sound of the amps I hear through the vintage speakers in a recording.

I suspect that micguy is very knowledgeable in this area.
 
#10
Count Bassie said:
I'm using an old GK 400RB, and the only Direct Out is 1/4" phone jack, and there's no option for post EQ. So I'm looking to mic my cab and send that to foh instead.
Doesn't need to be boutique or high-end, U just want good, accurate signal. I want to hear in the mains what I'm hearing in my amp.
Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
Have you thought about a DI between amp and cab?
 
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#12
IMO this is the best demo of mics on a bass cab that I've seen:


I had a clear preference from the mics demo'ed, and I was able to purchase that mic, new, for $110.

Also IMO, mics designed for kick drum scoop out too much midrange to give you good pitch definition in the mix.
 
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#13
Interesting conversation. My belief is that for medium to low volume gigs, mic'ing the cabinet could yield good results. Jazz club, coffee shops, lower volume blues/rock stages. For louder stages or when subwoofers are present in FOH, the bad effects could easily outweigh the benefits. In any case I would keep the bass out of the monitors if you are mic'ing it.

The post above for a speaker level DI seems about the cleanest choice if you really want to preserve your amp's contouring going to FOH. But this doesn't allow for the natural coloration (and roll off) of your cabinet (which I assume is part of the reason why you want to mic it). Otherwise you might be boosting certain frequencies to compensate for the baked in sound of your cabinet. For this reason I would highly recommend a DI in the signal chain before the amplifier. Shop for one that gets you as close as possible the GK sound + the cabinet that you use. This is not what you said you wanted, but it eliminates a lot of variables that could rear their head in a live situation. You don't want to give yourself 3 new problems for every one you solve.

It also gives you one significant advantage in being able to tweak your amp as a stage monitor without impacting FOH. You can establish your sound during the soundcheck, then turn up/down or EQ based on what you need to hear in the moment, and not on what you perceive FOH wants to hear. AND, you can still color the sound you are sending to FOH via the DI pedal, so you can absolutely still sculpt your sound being sent out. Added benefit is if you ever play in backline situation, you can still send the FOH the signal you like via your DI and then just deal with the backline amp as needed for a bass stage monitor.
 
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#14
micguy said:
That curve is for a source 2 feet from the mic on axis. When you close mic a cabinet, the proximity effect brings up the low end of the mic considerably. In reality, that mic used to mic a bass cabinet has more low end than that curve suggests.
Click to expand...
Indeed, though in practice the rising response through the midrange of a 57 or 58 tends to outpace any low frequency gain due to proximity effect. The results when close mic’d are still a comparatively bright sound that when balanced against other levels in the mix tends to sound thinner than a DI.
 
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#15
silky smoove said:
A lager diaphragm dynamic mic like the Shure SM7B or the EV RE-20 would be my preference for live use if a mic is required.
Click to expand...
These are my first-choice mics for this application as well (in reverse order for my taste).

While an SM-57 isn’t as flat down low, it actually sounds pretty good on a bass cabinet. A Beyer 88 would be better and a Sennheiser 421 better still but none would be as good as the above two.

No matter which mic you use it would be a good idea to also run direct, either from your amp or just from a DI; It will make your FOH engineer’s job a lot easier in difficult rooms.
 
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#18
Lo-E said:
Purely subjective, of course, but I’ve never heard a kick drum mic that I liked much on a bass cabinet. In all honesty, I’m not all that fond of them on a kick drum, either. I suppose they might be alright on a bass cab in a reggae band, perhaps…
Click to expand...
Not my preferences either. I’m old school and like a di and re20.
But I have seen a bunch of traveling engineers use a B52 or similar type kick drum mics, they also were using it with a di as well.
To each their own, I guess.
 

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