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Mic'ing bass amp for live shows?

#141
I always run a direct line because all the sound guys want it but my favorite sound guys/houses run a mic also. I like the way one of them put it - he said he "likes to hear some paper".
Having a sound guy who pays attention to the bass and respects the sound the bass player is aiming for (i.e. the amp) is nice.
AlstottMVP2 said:
I run direct because it's what I've always done.

Do any bass players mic their bass cab? Or do the low tones dictate running direct? thanks!
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#142
Personnaly, either live or studio, I'd sort of discard the DI..

Kinda like Mr JimmyM, I tottaly rely on my cabs's sound, both the 4x10 and the 1x15, mainly (but not only) because I use high pre gains and distortion a lot, which sound crappy through any kind of direct connection I've tried.

On the studio, we've used a voice large diaphragm mic for the 4x10 and a drum-kick mic for the 1x15, besides the clean DI. The thing is that, after recorded, we ended up not using the DI, because it added nothing else to the mix.
 
#143
What are peoples thoughts on the Shure Beta58a or Beta 57a? if the frequency response graphs are accurate, i would think they sound closer to the Beyer M88 than to the SM57/SM58?

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any real world experience?

i dont know how much i trust Shure's graphs, they show the SM57 and SM58 as having different low end response, but i always thought they were the same inside?


RTK
 
#145
I own the 1001RB-II and it allows me to send my EQ through the DI. =P Most of my tone comes from my head so I see it as a good thing. But I think to mic up the cab would be awesome. Most likely have to be an expensive mic to be able to get those lower notes audible though.
 
#146
Jazzdogg said:
You guys will love this - I stumbled across this post while researching mics to be used for bass cabs over on PSW:

"I use a Radial Pro48 for bottom and definition. Of the mics I have, the D4 would be the one for a bass cab. (Or an RE20 if I had bucks.) But honestly, I've yet to work with a bass rig that had sufficient character to warrant capturing it with a mic. I usually need the DI to give me all the good stuff, cause there ain't none comin' out of the bass rig. I find it useful to try switching the polarity, to see which blend of stage sound and PA gives the best bottom."

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Ok ... zombie thread time .... ('cos I've been reading this thread in my research on mic'ing cabs)

Is it just me or does the engineer quoted have an unspoken rider to his comment? In the back of my head I can hear an implied

"I know better than the guy actually playing the instrument and I'm going to make it sound like I want because I know best ... so :spit: to you Mr Bassplayer." (I'm may be exaggerating a smidge but you see where I'm going.)

I've gigged and recorded enough in enough situations to know that a certain amount of judicious sculpting is needed to get a mix to fit together. On that basis I'm going to have to put some trust in the engineer.

Personally I try to get a little time with the guy to talk about the tone in the FOH. Get him to listen to the amp (that is the sound I want) and then say

"Do whatever you need to do to get that sound (pointing at the amp) into the FOH, I can give you pre-fade or post-fade DI from the head, a DI box or we can mic the cab ... pick any or all of the above. I'm going to the bar while you think about it, do you want a beer?"

Am I too trusting? :D
 
#147
you have to be trusting to a certain extent. not much choice in the matter. and just because you mic it is no guarantee they'll get it like you want it in the house. so no matter what you use, all you can do is tell them what you like and hope they get it.
 
#149
JimmyM said:
you have to be trusting to a certain extent. not much choice in the matter. and just because you mic it is no guarantee they'll get it like you want it in the house. so no matter what you use, all you can do is tell them what you like and hope they get it.
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You're right on that of course but ... I suppose we're all just trying to maximise chances the band sounding the way we want it to. I guess I've been lucky in that in the past when I've had to rely on FOH for the most part it's been with an engineer that knew the band well or one of the other guys in the band out front directing traffic.

Looks like I'm heading towards a Sennheiser MD421 as the next weapon in the arsenal.
 
#150
MD421 is a great mic, you'll love it!

The fact is most "sound men" suck. Most of them aren't sound men at all, give a guy a Behringer mixer and a couple of SM 57's and he calls himself a soundman. When I see a "soundman" micing my bass with a D112, I know he's not a good sound guy before I play a note. Go sit in the audience at a local music club and listen to how bad the sound is most of the time. I can usually tell which instrument the soundman plays in just a few minutes. If the kick drum is louder than the vocals, he's a drummer. If you can't hear the bass or vocals very well, he's probably a guitarist.

The truth is for every hundred gigs you play, you may get good sound 25 times if you're lucky, maybe more if you're WELL established and playing the best venues in your area, but if you are doing that you've payed your dues by playing the s***ty clubs where the stage has only one monitor mix with guitar blaring through it at ear-splitting levels time and time again to get where you are today. When someone else is running sound I try not to worry about it and just play my best, because in the end, that's all you can do. Telling them what you want and how you want it to sound is a double edged sword; If the sound guy has no skills, no ear, and no appreciation for how all instuments should sound and how to construct a mix, it's like telling an idiot how to build a helicopter- it ain't gonna fly no matter what you tell him! On the other hand, as a sound guy myself, there is nothing more frustrating than a parade of people comming up to you and telling you how to do your job!

Mic or DI, I wouldn't worry about it. If the sound man has skill and talent, he can make Radio Shack gear sound great and you'll be happy with the sound. If he's a hack you can arm him with an assortment of the best mics, preamps, processors, speakers and mixing equipment money can buy and your sound is still gonna blow! Not much you can do about it either way. By telling him you want a mic, or you want a DI the only thing you are doing is ruining the slim chance of having good sound by pissing off the soundman!!!!!!!

My two cents.
 
#151
As a bass player , it's DI only , if I see someone putting a mike on my amp , I'll slap him ... :smug:
I'm joking , for me it's whatever the guy wants to do , I strongly suggest them my XLR out and 100% of the time , it's OK with them.


As a soundman , I much prefer a DI but if there is a need for a mike I'll use one.
I always bring two ATM25 at each gigs , one for the kick and one for wheatever else low end friendly.

If you do both ; be sure that the FOH guy have a 0,1ms delay on his board or a phase tool. Just sayin ......
 
#154
prd004 said:
Telling them what you want and how you want it to sound is a double edged sword; If the sound guy has no skills, no ear, and no appreciation for how all instuments should sound and how to construct a mix, it's like telling an idiot how to build a helicopter- it ain't gonna fly no matter what you tell him! On the other hand, as a sound guy myself, there is nothing more frustrating than a parade of people comming up to you and telling you how to do your job!
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Ok ... maybe I came across a bit "I want this I want that" etc. which wasn't really how I meant it. I think there is something to be gained from saying to the guy "I'd like it to sound like this, here's are the options I can give you, which of them do you want?"

At the end of the day if he's no good then he's no good, but I can only think of 2 people I know that I would trust to mix my band without any guidance at all. No matter how good they are I have yet to meet a psychic FOH engineer.
 
#155
Nickthebass said:
Ok ... maybe I came across a bit "I want this I want that" etc. which wasn't really how I meant it. I think there is something to be gained from saying to the guy "I'd like it to sound like this, here's are the options I can give you, which of them do you want?"

At the end of the day if he's no good then he's no good, but I can only think of 2 people I know that I would trust to mix my band without any guidance at all. No matter how good they are I have yet to meet a psychic FOH engineer.
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i have. some guys just plain get it and there's no mistaking that they get it. those guys i tend to leave alone.
 
#158
Figas said:
On the studio, we've used a voice large diaphragm mic for the 4x10 and a drum-kick mic for the 1x15, besides the clean DI. The thing is that, after recorded, we ended up not using the DI, because it added nothing else to the mix.
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I'd say that the monitoring system must not have had anything going on below 60Hz, otherwise the DI would have added something very nice.
 

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