Micro Bass Heads, why doesn't everyone use them?

[smogg]

Used a Walter Woods as my primary gigging head from around 1993 to 2005 or so. Also, as has been posted many times, the class D power amp design, and also SMPS (ultra lightweight power supplies) have been used successfully in high end PA applications for a LONG time.

FYI, Genz has discontinued the GBE750. And +1. there will always be a place for the lead sled thing, and products like the Genz1200, the DB751, etc. will continue to be available IMO.

I may have phrased incorrectly. I did not mean to say that the tech itself is new. I meant to infer that the tech as an "accepted mainstream product line" is still relativity new to the greater bass player community outside of places like TB.

Hopefully that make more sense?

 

[fishdreams]

I would love to have an amp with a tube power section again. I still miss the Music Man HD130 with its accompanying folded horn 1X15 cab that I used to have when I lived overseas. Tone to float on.

But here in the city where I live in a 4 floor walkup, and public transportation is king, it really is not fun lugging heavy cabs and amps to and from rehearsals. To be able to take a bass with micro amp packed in the gig bag pocket, plus lightweight 10 inch cab on the train (or to work and then from work to rehearsal, for example) really makes it so much nicer to have sessions with people left and right. Not to mention that I can take the train, while not forced to use whatever the venue happens to offer as backline-even if you'll play over "anything", you might want to pass too on that Hartke B200 on the gig.

But If I'd live in a house in the burbs I'd go for that end tube sound. I guess my point is: while I in general prefer the well-built lead sleigh tone (tube or SS), my GK MB200 sounds good enough and therefore gets the gig.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Either that or we (the TB types) will get branded as gear snobs

You mean we don't?

 

[jungleheat]

Does this question really need to be asked? Why would someone have a huge gas guzzling suv when you could own a honda civic that's reliable and good on gas? Why would anyone own a honda civic when you could have a ford mustang that's fast and exciting. Why would anyone own a ford mustang when you could have a subaru legacy wagon that's practical and good in the snow? Why would anyone own a subaru legacy when you could have a mclaren f1 that goes like a rocket ship and will get you chicks?

There are any number of reasons why not every single person out there wouldnt have the same type of amp.

#1 People just prefer different things.
#2 For some people, weight/size isn't really a concern for whatever reason.
#3 Some people might just be happy with what they have already.
#4 Some people might have the money to go out and buy a brand new amp, especially if their current one (or ones) is/are working fine.
#5 When people do buy the micro-amps, they usually sell what they had before, creating a buyer's market for the "older" amps.
#6 Some people don't buy into the overly consumerist society we live in where you always have to have the "new best thing".
#7 The environment really doesn't need every single player out there buying a new amp every year or two.

For me personally, it's a little bit of all/most of these. I like a mix of old school/modern. My cabs/speakers are 20+ years old, my "backup" head (since I got a new one recently) is over 15 years old, has a tube preamp 400w @ 4ohms, is 2 ohm stable (450w) sounds great, and weighs about 16 pounds. I paid about $375 for it in excellent condition a year ago. So what would I gain if I sold it in and spent more money on a "micro" head? I'd save maybe 5-10 pounds, and a bit of space I guess. But it wouldn't necessarily have the "mojo" and vibe of a classic amp, and it wouldn't necessarily sound better. And I couldn't hook 4 8 ohm cabs to it! Plus, this one is a brand I had always wanted (SWR) from before they got swallowed by a big corporation (Fender), and the thing is in such great shape that especially considering it was my first real bass head I will probably never get rid of it.

My new main amp I have not because of anything wrong with the SWR, but because it's from another brand that I've always wanted (Trace) and I get a crazy ridiculous deal on it that was good too pass up. This one has about 1/3 more power than the SWR (not 2ohm stable though, according to the manual, although the thing is pretty bullet proof), is a little more flexible sound wise and sounds EVEN BETTER than the SWR, also has a tube pre with more easily gotten overdrive, a 12 band EQ, dual band compression, and a very comprehensive set of ins and outs. It weighs 30 pounds, but who cares? It sounds awesome and I can carry it by myself and I got it for 1/5 of what it would be new (which it was, basically), so why should I replace it?

Honestly, if I get anything else at this point, it will probably be something like an Acoustic 370. I grew up with amazing high powered solid state stereo gear in the house (McIntosh, with JBL speakers), so I don't have the aversion to it a lot of guys have and I actually like that sound, especially of 70s solid state stuff that's really well built.

Eventually I'd like a medium/high powered tube bass head too, either Ampeg or Trace or a Hiwatt clone, something like that. But until then I have an old 70w Bassman and a Musicman 65 (tube power amp, SS pre) that will get the job done for recording purposes and screwing around.

 

[Oldtimer]

"How many people can say they have had a micro head for 10+ years with never a hick up?
I've had mine about 2 1/2 years and so far so good ( knocks wood )"

Not even a slight hesitation out of my Walter Woods M100-8 from '83 till about 2001, nor with my Walter Woods Ultra High Power from 2001 til about 3 years ago. Now using a Genz Streamliner 900 and also have a Shuttle 9.0. No problems so far with any of it.
BTW, still have all above mentioned and zero problems.

 

[anton72]

I use LMII head and just add EBS tube preamp before it when I want a tube sound. Very practical 'cause you always has two tonal options.

 

[Baird6869]

And while I agree that large, solid state amps, don't seem to be as popular with the TB crowd, I still see them being used by the large majority of bands I go out and see.

Good point, but I think this may be due to a lack of TB inspired GAS.

I know many bass players that still play old SWR, Eden, GK, etc. but wouldn't know what a Puma, Markbass, Genz Benz or GOLight (or Baer for that matter) is if you dropped it on their head!

No website or magazine inspired urgency to upgrade to the "latest and greatest" I guess.

 

[Kitsapbass]

I like the new microamps just fine - I'll get one eventually. That being said, I tend to buy the amps that people sell after they get the microamps - such as my 800RB, or the SWR SM400 I'm sure I'll get for under 300.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I really think that there is room for both. I helped design the EA Doubler. I love it. But it really doesn't meet it's power rating in real world experience. To me, micro amps are still where cd's were when they first came out. They were convenient and relaible. They had low noise floor. But they just were missing something when compared to records. Then technology improved bit by bit (no pun intended) and they became more competitive with records in terms of detail. Records are coming back because they have a certain "something" not present in cd's.
I think it's the same with micros. (little ones--not 10 pounders) They do really cool stuff. Many are better than the EA in terms of actual output. For me, though, there is a certain "something" with power transformers, et al..I'm looking seriously at Roger's and others offerings. Under 25# is still doable, and I know that there are certain gigs where this would be great.
Micros will inevitably keep improving, and eventually give me more of the "whump" that I want. I was an endorser for WW YEARS ago, but I just couldn't get the impact I wanted. Now the micros are making great ground in that department. Now I'm just waiting for an under 5# micro where 550 watts into 4 ohms feels like 550 into 4.
Now Ken---I know that I've got to re-try the Markbass stuff. When I spent a week at the Blue Note in Milan Marco brought a ton of stuff out. Just couldn't get it to work for upright.But that was 3 years ago. Great on electric, though.

 

[newbold]

So often we forget the eco factor that is present in nearly every other type of electronic gear.

A Digital power section is incredibly efficient. In time this will likely be a factor to new musicians, as they make gigging on the beach or in a park with a battery pack more commonplace.

Here's to good times with great gear wherever you can and however you can.

My Yamaha BBT500 was one of the first digital amps and I think it still sounds fantastic.

It sure works well that's for sure.

 

[NOLA Bass]

I have a GK 1001 RBII and Mesa Walkabout. At the end of the day, they are not 3 pounds but not exactly an SVT either. Savings in weight from say 13# pounds to 3# is only a big deal if you have a gig with transport issues (such as can't park by club or taking mass transit). Then, a 3# head in the gig bag is unbelievable. My buddy gigs on Bourbon Street sometime. That can mean walking blocks. He has a double gigbag, GK MB500 in the pocket of the bag and carries a neo 112 cab in the other. You can't beat that!! However, the heads I have are certainly nowhere near lugging an SVT or my old modular rack setup that ended up causing me to have neck surgery. Now the weight of the cabinet and my bass is more important than whether my head is 3-5# vs 10-20#. Plus, I can usually park or unload right at the clubs I play.

Now, I think class D is making the combo amp relevant again. When the combo amp is no more than 5# more than just the cab, that is makes it make sense again. The bomo of class D and neo speakers means there are some combos that are quite gig worthy and super easy to move. Years ago, I had a Trace Elliot 2-10" combo. I always wondered, what's the point? It would have been so much easier to move as a separate head and cab. It is just awkward and heavy (plus it was from the Gibson era, so even though it sounded good, totally unreliable).

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

Because no micro amp I have ever tried comes close to sounding how my Marshall Lemmy sounds. I agree with Mike Arnopol's post. For me there is just something missing in the sound of the micros. It's not big or full enough for me. Nothing to do with loudness.

 

[JimiLL]

It's all personal preference. Me personally, I have no interest at all in the micro format and have no problem with any head in the 20lb. to 30lb. range. And while I agree that large, solid state amps, don't seem to be as popular with the TB crowd, I still see them being used by the large majority of bands I go out and see.

+1. I have yet to hear a micro that matches up tonally to its leadsled counterpart.

Plus, that 75% figure thrown out before is.... WAYYY off. I dont see barely any local bands using micro gear

 

[JimiLL]

Good point, but I think this may be due to a lack of TB inspired GAS.

I know many bass players that still play old SWR, Eden, GK, etc. but wouldn't know what a Puma, Markbass, Genz Benz or GOLight (or Baer for that matter) is if you dropped it on their head!

No website or magazine inspired urgency to upgrade to the "latest and greatest" I guess.

Ur saying no one reads musicians friend or sam ash catalogs or whatever?

To say the general bass public doesnt use micro amps because they dont know about them is a little.....

 

[KJung]

+1. I have yet to hear a micro that matches up tonally to its leadsled counterpart.

Plus, that 75% figure thrown out before is.... WAYYY off. I dont see barely any local bands using micro gear

My 75% estimate is current sales, not total usage. Lots of old amps still out there. Nothing wrong with that.

In my may A/B's, the only topological difference I hear is between all tube amps and not all tube amps (and even that has started to blurr a bit with amps like the Streamliner and Walkabout and MPulse600). I notice no consistent difference between 'heavy solid state amps' and 'lighter solid state amps' when matched for general wattage level.

 

[KJung]

Ur saying no one reads musicians friend or sam ash catalogs or whatever?

To say the general bass public doesnt use micro amps because they dont know about them is a little.....

You would be surprised at the complete lack of knowledge about gear with most bassists (even very good ones). Again, nothing wrong with that.

Also, remember, most of the mom and pop music stores are gone, and many players avoid Guitar Center like the plague. Hence, very little chance to experience anything new these days.

 

[seamonkey]

Nobody is giving up any tone or quality when they use a micro head.

More efficient, better quality, smaller lighter are all forms of progress. New sales, microheads dominate and that's where you build up a following - Just what sells.

Even those who believe big heavy is better, even big vintage heavy is lighter than what the replaced. A single SVT is in fact a miniaturization of what was available at the time.

 

[Kitsapbass]

You would be surprised at the complete lack of knowledge about gear with most bassists (even very good ones). Again, nothing wrong with that.

Also, remember, most of the mom and pop music stores are gone, and many players avoid Guitar Center like the plague. Hence, very little chance to experience anything new these days.

I avoid GC simply because the ones by me tend to have crap. I had to go there yesterday - they had 2 Markbass amps and then used bass amps.

 

[BurningSkies]

There are a lot of guys out there playing 10, 20, 30, 40 year old amps. It doesn't surprise me that you don't see a ton of them on stage yet. Big heavy amps are plentiful and cheap. Most guys don't amp hop like those here do.

I used a LMII as my main amp for maybe 4 years or so, and I think it performed well, but I ended up running into its limitations once I switched cabs. At loud volumes the compression in the lows bothered me as did some distortion in the mids that wasn't hearable in standard cabs, but once I moved to a higher fidelity rig became a concern to me.

I took a 'hybrid' approach. Class D and light weight power to compliment a tube front end. I sacrificed size and some weight (moved to a 3 space standard rack) and while not 6 pounds, I'm in the 20 and less range. What I have for that is very clean, high power with lots of headroom for transients even at volume. I also gain all of the harmonics and richness that people think of when they look at old heavy gear.

 

[KJung]

I avoid GC simply because the ones by me tend to have crap. I had to go there yesterday - they had 2 Markbass amps and then used bass amps.

+1 Very hard to try any of this stuff locally. The days of 'try before buy' are pretty much over, and the days of professional musicians hanging out at the local mom and pop music shop and exchanging ideas, etc. is also almost totally over (other than a few 'mega mom and pops' in a few cities, like Bass Northwest or whatever.)

It can be quite overwhelming for a player who has been gigging his Eden WT800 for 15 years and is interested in 'something else', but has little info other than looking though a bewildering range of amps on Musician's Friend.

Talkbass is a good source to help sort things out, but that too can get a bit overwhelming for the guy or gal who drops in for an hour a year just to get some specific info.