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Microphone Stage for Upright Bass

Hi guys, I wanted to ask you for some advice on a stage microphone for my double bass.
We are a loud band and I need more body on my instrument. I already have a pick up system that I connect directly to the amp with a DI.
Can anyone recommend a good stage microphone that resists feedback?
I'm undecided between the Nadine from Ear Trumpet and the DPA 4099.

Thank you very much everyone
 
Hi guys, I wanted to ask you for some advice on a stage microphone for my double bass.
We are a loud band and I need more body on my instrument. I already have a pick up system that I connect directly to the amp with a DI.
Can anyone recommend a good stage microphone that resists feedback?
I'm undecided between the Nadine from Ear Trumpet and the DPA 4099.

Thank you very much everyone


Micing an upright in a loud band is an exercise in futility IMHO. The DPA 4099 is fabulous but it will not reject bleed well enough for use in a loud band. Despite my negativity, I will provide as much useful info as I can.

There couple of contact mics that may work for you. Research the Ehrlund EAP and the Ischell. The Ischell is actually a mic.

EAP System - Ehrlund Microphones
Double bass pickups - ISCHELL

I have some experience with the EAP and it's the most mic-like pickup I have ever heard. It does not work on all basses, and placement is critical.

Another option that may be useful is the Remic D5400. This is a mic mounted in foam that is wedged in various places such as under the finger or between the bridge legs. Upright Bass (Double Bass) Microphones - REMIC Microphones

There is also the BassBall which is a round piece of foam that holds and Audix mic head between the bridge legs. Open this page and scroll down: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If the band is super loud, you may have to resort to some sort of magnetic pickup that senses the string vibrations directly. This tends to sound more like an electric bass, but it's the best solution for maximum gain before feedback.

Another tool that can help is a mic shield. Use the shield with a mic that has a really tight pickup pattern. If I were in the market I would look at this company:
Reflexion Filters - sE Electronics

@John Goldsby makes quite a few positive comments (multiple posts) about using a mic shield on this page of this thread : Mic'ing an upright ... pickup not in yet ... | Page 3 | TalkBass.com

I cued this video up to a time where you can see him using sE Electronic mics shield:
 
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Micing an upright in a loud band is an exercise in futility IMHO. The DPA 4099 is fabulous but it will not reject bleed well enough for use in a loud band. Despite my negativity, I will provide as much useful info as I can.

There couple of contact mics that may work for you. Research the Ehrlund EAP and the Ischell. The Ischell is actually a mic.

EAP System - Ehrlund Microphones
Double bass pickups - ISCHELL

I have some experience with the EAP and it's the most mic-like pickup I have ever heard. It does not work on all basses, and placement is critical.

Another option that may be useful is the Remic D5400. This is a mic mounted in foam that is wedged in various places such as under the finger or between the bridge legs. Upright Bass (Double Bass) Microphones - REMIC Microphones

There is also the BassBall which is a round piece of foam that holds and Audix mic head between the bridge legs. Open this page and scroll down: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If the band is super loud, you may have to resort to some sort of magnetic pickup that senses the string vibrations directly. This tends to sound more like an electric bass, but it's the best solution for maximum gain before feedback.

Another tool that can help is a mic shield. Use the shield with a mic that has a really tight pickup pattern. If I were in the market I would look at this company:
Reflexion Filters - sE Electronics

@John Goldsby makes quite a few positive comments (multiple posts) about using a mic shield on this page of this thread : Mic'ing an upright ... pickup not in yet ... | Page 3 | TalkBass.com

I cued this video up to a time where you can see him using sE Electronic mics shield:

Ok thanks for the advice!
The ishell seems like a good contact mic, I just don't know how it would behave in combination with my piezo.
I'm well aware of the consequences of a condenser mic, I just want to give more 'wood' to my instrument.
What do you think of dynamic mics instead?
 
In general I would like to use my piezo with my pedalboard in Di and with the amp as a monitor on stage.
While the microphone would go to the FOH.
Definitely would need a good sound engineer to handle the mic, to get around that, maybe the contact mic would be ideal.
But I don't know how well it would work with my piezo.
 
What do you think of dynamic mics instead?

Given the same pickup pattern and frequency response, I don't think it will make a difference. The root of the problem is the upright bass is simply not loud enough acoustically for a mic to work in a noisy environment. The mic cannot isolate and pull the upright bass's weak signal out of the acoustic mayhem.

Any time you use two pickup mechanisms there are potential phase issues. This will be true whether you use a second contact pickup, or a free air mic. Even some single pickups with two or more elements have this problem. You can find quite a few comments where users cut one of the elements off their Underwood pickup. So using the Ishcell with your existing piezo may work great, or not. Part of making it work can be how you process each signal.

If you explore the Ischell website you will see that it can be configured different ways, including with both a contact pickup and an "aerial" mic.

In my experience a mic adds the most realism in the high frequency range. So it's more about air than body. The worst problem I experience with a mic is bleed from cymbals and feedback from the amp. I had the impression that the rejection off the back and side of the mics was adequate. The cymbal problem related more to the sound bouncing off the upright's curved front panel. This caused an effect similar to flanging. So not only were the cymbals loud, but they sounded harsh and distorted. Rolling the highs off the mic enough to mitigate the problem with cymbals eliminated any benefit the mic provided IMHO.

The feedback problem with the amp is solved by not sending the mic to the amp. Use the contact pickup and only send the mic to FOH IMHO.

If you try one of the sE Electronics mic shields, bigger is better. It's not only about shielding the back and side of the mic from bleed. I believe it's also about creating a sound shadow so less sound bleed is reflected off the front panel of the bass back into the microphone.

Choosing a different contact pickup may help. The Ehrlund and Ischell are not 100% authentic to the sound you get from a mic, but they are way closer. There is no best between these two. The Ehrlund make work better on one bass, while the Ischell works better on the next. From what I have read, the Wilson K4 focuses more on the string sound. The pickup elements are very close to the top edge of the bridge. At the opposite end of the spectrum is the Realist Copperhead which sits between the bridge and the body. This Realist work fairly well for bow, but tends to pick up a bit too much body when you play pizz. This often causes the sound to be more diffuse and boxy, rather than clear and punchy.

Another thing you can try is corrective EQ. The bass, pickup, amp, and cab form a system. The frequency response of this system is not linear. As you turn up the gain, the peaks in the frequency response tend to get more extreme due to the feedback loop between the bass and speaker. But identifying and cutting these peaks, you can make the sound more clear and true. I used to do this with either a parametric or 31 band graphic EQ. A modern produce called the ToneDexter does something similar. ToneDexter by Audio Sprockets - Studio Sound for Your Live Performance


I should have mentioned the Chuck Israels mic by Xlson. I don't have personal experience, but @rickwolff has posted a bunch of video and it sounds fabulous and seems to give slightly better isolation than the DPA. I don't think it would be effective on a loud stage, but it's a step in the right direction.

Instead of a mic shield, some sort of gobo system may work, but a gobos will be large and expensive.

RealTraps - MiniGobos

You may make a mic work, but it will most likely require quite a bit of experimentation and also is likely to get expensive rather quickly.
 
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