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Mid scoop?

Derek Balonek

Derek Balonek

Mar 15, 2011
787
5
37
USA, CA, Sacramento Metro area
#1
I've noticed something looking through a lot of the posts about gear/looking at amps. Some amps have an "enhance" button or something like it, which basically amounts to a mid scoop. Some have a scoop built in to the initial sound when set "flat". Heck, even some of the tone controls make it hard not to dial in the scoop (stuff with only bass/treble, or bass/treble is boost only and mid is cut only). So why is this always there? I've heard countless people here complaining about a mid scoop or "smiley face" EQ, saying that it drops them out of the mix. I'm sure some people like the sound, but I've heard a lot of people that don't. But it's still there and not uncommon. Does anyone know why this is?
 
#3
kraigo said:
Because mid scoop sounds great solo'd and moves bass amps off the sales floor, at which point the manufacturer's and retailer's job is done.

KO
Click to expand...

I completely disagree with this statement. In fact, I would argue the polar opposite. The pedal I use that has a mid-scoop contour (that smiley face you were talking about) is one that I rarely use when playing by myself and over the years I've tried a number of times to quit using it because, when I play solo for a while I get in my head that it doesn't sound as good. But then I go back to the band setting, feel like something is missing, push that little contour button and boom...there's the sweet spot in the mix.

EDIT: Of course, it totally depends on what sound you and your cohorts are going for. I use a mid boost sometimes too, although not often.
 
#4
sevdog said:
I completely disagree with this statement. In fact, I would argue the polar opposite. The pedal I use that has a mid-scoop contour (that smiley face you were talking about) is one that I rarely use when playing by myself and over the years I've tried a number of times to quit using it because, when I play solo for a while I get in my head that it doesn't sound as good. But then I go back to the band setting, feel like something is missing, push that little contour button and boom...there's the sweet spot in the mix.
Click to expand...

I'd say that you're the minority there. Cutting mids usually gets me totally lost in a band environment.
 
#6
kraigo said:
Because mid scoop sounds great solo'd and moves bass amps off the sales floor, at which point the manufacturer's and retailer's job is done.
Click to expand...

sevdog said:
I completely disagree with this statement. In fact, I would argue the polar opposite.
Click to expand...


I had no idea until I read this that there was a concerted effort on the part of bass equip manufacturers and retailers to actually dissuade people from buying their merchandise by making it easier to achieve a "scooped" sound via 'enhance' buttons and proprietary preamp circuitry...

:hmm:
 
#8
bertbass666 said:
Personally, the first thing I do when I get a new amp is to turn the mid knob to minimum. I don't like mid, to me it just makes the sound muddy. I've never had a problem being heard but it's all subjective.
Click to expand...

It's not just subjective, it also depends a lot on what other instruments you are playing with and the style of everyone involved...

But I also find it rather capitalistic... So many naturally mid scooped amps and so few situations that actually benefit from mid scooped bass. :p
 
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#10
I am not a fan of mids. I cut them on my iPod, car stereo, etc. But in a band setting, gotta have SOME mids. It adds note definition. Rolled my mids back, drummer said he couldn't really hear me at practice, even though my rig volume - GK 1001 RBII & SWR Workingman's Tower (8x10) - was at 3:00 and facing him less than 20 feet away, in a corner. I should've been knocking him off of his stool.
 
#13
I agree that contour and enhance controls are included many amps, in part, to satisfy those who want an instantly gratifying "bedroom" tone. However, with some musical situations there is a useful application. (I don't like heavily scooped mids with goosed bass & treble)

I have a bass with a single pickup placed between the P and MM locations. The inherent voice of the instrument speaks very clearly in a mix without being harsh. Add DR sunbeams into the mix, and you have some serious mids.

Soloed, the bass is so mid rich that I have to be careful not to step on other instruments sonic space. Keep in mind, I do jazz, latin, theater & choral accompaniment and not loud rock. If I'm backing a solo female vocalist, I'm listening to the frequencies between 300-800 Hz and relaxing them if its too crowded there. Sometimes backing off the mids w/wide Q is a better option than boosting the lows. Depends.

When I do play loud gigs (rarely), I leave the mids alone.
 
#14
Lots of good responses so far. I'm really not a fan of the scooped tone for solo playing though. It sounds okay, but there's always something missing in my mind. I agree that a scoop can be functional depending on what you play. Sometimes cutting through is good, but like a few people said, you might be stepping all over someone else's range by boosting the mids. Perhaps it's to help accentuate the fundamental more? Bass usually has a higher peak in the second harmonic than the fundamental, which is right in the guitar range, So it might be an issue of sitting under the mix or cutting through it?
 
#15
another thing is that the "scoop" is primarily for low-volume. just like the "loudness" button on stereos. gives you more of the pleasing bass 'thump' without being too loud. and everyone knows the benefit of the "loudness" button completely disappears at loud volumes and it can become a problem/distortion. same thing with scooped bass gear, in solo practice its fine but in a band=blown drivers. As me how I found that out...:ninja:

one thing though that I think is very under emphasized on TB, speaking about 'cutting through the mix' is that a great band sounds like a 'band' and not individual instrument players. compare some of the great albums of the 70s and 80s with some of the protools stuff from the 90s (before they dialed the 'cutting through the mix' crap back aways...)
 
#17
The ONLY times when I've been glad to have a quick mid scoop option was for pop/slap or heavy pick stuff. The "sounds good solo'd" comment is incredibly true, on your own you can do a scooped out tone to sound nice but in a band mix you need mids to get those notes up close and personal.
 
#18
I was lucky enough tonight to scoop the mids on a few songs, mostly ballads. We played some nice dynamics tonight, the soft parts were really soft, and every instrument threw in what it wanted, but in delicate doses. Including me on the bass. I had enough headroom, and no one else was in my frequencies, so I turned the VPF up on my Little Mark III. It sounded wonderful. But as soon as we got back into some rock n roll I had to go back to almost dead "flat."
 
#20
I find it interesting how my Line 6 lowdown combo always goes to a scooped setting whenever I switch it on...regardless of where I left the knobs last time I played. As soon as I touch the knobs on it, the scooped is "turned off"...

I guess Line 6 is marketing it in line with what Mr. kraigo said...:ninja:
 

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