That's why I'm not using the Source Audio pedals any more. If you are really a set your presets and leave em alone kinda person, they are great. I also felt stunted by the way the midi works with the Hub. I just want regular old MIDI and program changes. But that's me being idiosyncratically persnickety I recognize, they totally have a viable system there. I mean, I'm using a freaking Zoia.but I just like pedal stuff at my finger tips.
Again, don't have the GT1000, but I think the editing is similar to the ms3 which I find, once you get over the learning curve, totally usable on the fly. I only really hook it up to the computer to update firmware and copy my template (which has the appropriate MIDI sends etc. set up) to all the presets.
A lot of people don't realise that the C4 is a fully USB midi compliant device...it's doesn't need a SA Neuro Hub to receive midi signals. Disaster Area have proved this with their tiny DMC Micro Pro. Basically, if you have a USB Midi controller...then it interfaces just fine with the C4. For most midi controllers...they need a pair of 5 pin midi cables. I have a Neuro hub because it adds 128 extra patches across the 5 SA pedals connected to mine. My SA Lunar and Aftershock can't receive Midi PC and don't have a facility to change patches via midi. Where as my SA EQ2, Nemesis, C4, Ultrawave and Spectrum do and works fine in that fashion.
Basic controls like input & output volume, Bass, mid , treble and mix are very easy to understand. Plus there's the 4 dials on the pedal, plus an expression option. Which are all that's usually needed for a live performance. However, it's live ability is configured in the pre-sets...if you don't get them right then it'll be disaster in a live context.
Where the one box solution is good is that's it's just one box, covers a lot of ground and has a lot of simplicity. Where they generally fall down is that it's easy to overwhelm it's DSP with a list of complex effects. The quality of the User Interface is also a maker or breaker for multis. Effectively, the multi becomes it's own virtual pedal board. The quality of the menus and ease of editing becomes a critical factor...again, probably best served by hooking up to a PC and editing. But some pedals like the Helix Stomp seems to do well without that need. For me, I don't do small screens that well...so a USB connection to a PC based editor is a preferred option. One of my big gripes with the Boss ES-5/8 switchers and Strymon big panels is that they uses the Midi 5 pin in/out to connect to the PC editor, so I have to buy a compatible 3rd party USB to Mini interface and then dismantle part of my board to get to those sockets. Why no USB connector? That's just lame engineering in 2021.
Versatility. The biggest issue with multi's (and this has always been the case) is that it's an "all your eggs in one basket" approach. If you don't like the Chorus or the Octaver, you are kind of stuck with it and in my experience, there's always some patches that sound great and others that just don't make the grade.
When Line 6 or Boss come to play in the Multi effects genre...they have the heritage, knowledge and budget to get a lot right. I've often thought about adding a Helix Stomp or GT-1000 Core to my board, but ironically...I don't actually have the need. I've gone down the complex rabbit hole of choosing the best of breed niche pedals and I've not found the pressing need for the Boss or Line 6 units. My Eventide H9's pick up a lot of the slack, it's a bit of a very strong one slot multi. In fact I've not found any of the H9's patches to be lacking, except that it can only slot one algorithm at a time. But with my approach, I get to cherry pick my best of breed effects.
It's way more expensive and complex. But hey...everyone needs a hobby / obsession.
I have a singular view of the digital / analogue debate as I think I'm the only guy on TB at the moment who has had all analogue, integrated some digital and now has a 100% pure digital / Midi board (happy to be corrected in that statement).
The problem with going down the multiple / dedicated pedals niche is the inherent complexity in getting different brands to play nicely with each other.
Midi, it's a common standard with lots of interpretations. Strymon's approach to midi is a little bizarre, requiring the doubling of patch numbers, LSB parameters...and their Midi thru adds a lot of junk to the signal, which seems to mess with nearly every other brand's Midi that's placed after it. So put your Strymon big panel last in your Midi chain...or get a Quadra Thru box to clean things up. Brands like Source Audio or Eventide seem to be very clean and play well with other brands. These days we have 5 pin midi, TRS midi and now USB midi. 3 more formats to think about. Yes you can get a Thru box now that interfaces all of these, but again...it's another box. Integrating quirky and needy devices like a Faderfox PC4 can be a real challenge.
Power...geeze...digital boxes like the H9's, SA One series pedals, EXH, Strymon...they all have very different power requirements and this can be a headache too. With a HXStomp...that's real easy...the OEM supply is all you need as you only have one pedal!
Sound Quality...it's not just about DSP, bit rates, D/A converter quality. Sometimes it's the specific sound that's nice. My H9's used to be state of the art DSP. These days it's still top drawer, but the competition has caught up hardware wise. The DSP in the Source Audio pedals is still the most advanced on the market and generally they code their pedals to do only on or two things...so they get to write algorithms that are very specific and well tailored. Their digital dirt sounds analogue to my ears, their filters are the best available (IMHO), the C4 is one of the best Synths available. The Lunar is a great multi mod pedal. The Nemesis is an awesome delay pedal...the list goes on. Some of the issues with the Boss GT-1000 core and HX stomp is that some of the patches / algorithms are a bit weak or not great sounding. So then I find that I need to supplement my Multi with a dedicated device to resolve that weakness...and before long I have a 5/6 pedal board again. That said, the GT 100 Core / HX Stomp boards that I've seen are a lot smaller than mine, generally.
Control. One of the great advantages of Digital effects is also the area that can be most over whelming. It's the ability to tweak or edit a specific effect. Most analogue dirt pedals get 3 or 4 pots max, grit, vol, tone or Mix. My Ultrawave, I can choose SO much...from specific compression, distortion clip type, multiband...trem...so much. I can literally model a specific device...or create something that doesn't yet exist. My SA Lunar has complete control over every aspect of a Modulation type, so If I dial in a CE-1 sound or a UniVibe sound...I also get control over aspects that the original pedal didn't have. This can be a blessing or an issue...depending on my understanding and knowledge of how modulation works.
Pedalboard Size and weight. With separates, it's an ever creeping quest for perfection / nirvana (heavy quad chorus...right?). When I started in integrate digital with my analogue, my trust pedal board of 5 years wasn't going to cut it anymore and I needed something that was going to give me what I needed for years to come. It's only in the last few months where I've come to the point that the real estate of my existing board is now the limiting factor for me. I've cleared some space under the hood and I think I have one more space for a small pedal...but that's it. I'd love to add a future impact v3 in there...just not sure it'll fit. Big boards don't get more compact than mine...but it's a logistical challenge and there's not much on the market that supports this approach. Most pedal board marques make boards that are deliberately not quite right and cause one to regularly buy and flip a few months later. I went 18" Square as it offered a triple row of standard size effects. I chose double tier as it was the most efficient and allowed me to retain the 18" size.
Weight wise, my DIY board is less than 1 kgs...however it's all the effects, PSU's, hubs and numerous leads that make the thing heavy. That said, my board is still a lot lighter than my PJB cab/combo...so it isn't that bad. I can still easily manage on one trip set up from the car to gig stage.
Some digital pedals are just too big and heavy for a modern context. A Strymon Timeline is a good example, it was a revolution it it's day. But it takes up a lot of board space where so many smaller and just as capable units now exist in the market place. A SA Nemesis is a far smaller, lighter choice and covers more ground sonically.
If I wanted a small and light board that covers a lot of ground, I think I would seriously consider a HX Stomp or a GT-1000 Core. But the big question then becomes...what do I choose to supplement it with? For me I'd need an OC2 (drop in a C4), better dirt & compression (drop in an Ultrawave) and better verbs or analogue sounding delay (drop in a Collider). Then it's pretty state of the art and kick ass. For a 4 box solution...that is VERY feature rich...sub £1200 UKP and top drawer in terms of usable sounds. I would miss my Lunar, Hog2, EQ2, H9's an Spectrum though! But it would be very small....
