Midi controlled effects vs. multi effect (source audio, line 6 hx stomp, boss gt1000 core)

[Blue Swede]

Hi all,

TL,DR:
Would you prefer source audio pedals controlled by midi or multi fx units for a pedal board setup?

I'm looking for input from those of you who have tried one or more of the units in the title, specifically I want to know how people feel about multiple source audio pedals controlled via midi and how it compares to the compact multifx units of recent.

The competitors are as follows, and I've put the source audio gear first as to give a hint of what kind of sounds I am looking to be able to make:

• Source Audio; Ultrawave distortion, c4 Synth/Spectrum, EQ2 + Soleman/micro dmc and Neuro Hub
• LINE6 HX Stomp/ maybe even the xl version
• BOSS GT1000 Core¨

These will be part of my pedalboard setup for live shows and coupled with a Noble pre at the end of chain and one of the following compressors, Fea labs DE-CL & DB-CL, Empress bass compressor, Effectrode LA 1A. Not where in the chain the compressor(s) will go yet.

I want to know the following things and value 1 highest and 3 lowest:

1. Reliability - in particular live shows as that's where I will use it 99.9% of time
2. Quality of audio.
3. Ease of setup and programming/Price (TIED)

Also please list the pros and cons you have come across.

I have personally only used the Source audio C4 and really liked the sounds I could get from it, but I felt like I needed more peripherals to get the most from it. I looked into midi switchers and a Neuro Hub, but that coupled with the pedals would set me back enough for a fullsize multifx unit, that in itself is fine as long as there is a clear advantage in going the multipedal route. I have yet to try a smaller multifx unit with my Noble and compressors.

Looking forward to your replies.

 

[Pedalnetics]

I had a C4 + Aftershock MIDI controlled via NeuroHub, and now have an HX Stomp (also midi controlled).

In terms of reliability, I trusted everything I've had, and never had issues that weren't self-inflicted midi errors.

Audio quality I suck at judging, but I found zero audio tradeoff between my HX & the SA pedals.

The reason I ended up with my HX was actually ease of programming when Live. No matter how much I tweak at home, I always wanted to tweak on-site a bit more. The on-screen HX editing allowed that, and the SA pedals required a cable plugged into Input 2 on the pedals + mobile app which was too involved for me.

I actually MIDI controller my Stomp and love it. I can get way more complexity than anything (press and hold MIDI to activate a Poly Sustain, and when I release the midi switch the Stomp changes 4 other settings via MIDI commands. Can't do that stomp-alone).

My vote: MultiFX, due to on-site/realtime editing abilities

 

[bholder]

The C4 definitely benefits from external control, the measly on board controls make it hard to get very deep or see what you're doing. I was looking into MIDI controllers but got by just by leaving the usb plugged into the app all the time (wouldn't be so convenient live though).

 

[Blue Swede]

I had a C4 + Aftershock MIDI controlled via NeuroHub, and now have an HX Stomp (also midi controlled).

In terms of reliability, I trusted everything I've had, and never had issues that weren't self-inflicted midi errors.

Audio quality I suck at judging, but I found zero audio tradeoff between my HX & the SA pedals.

The reason I ended up with my HX was actually ease of programming when Live. No matter how much I tweak at home, I always wanted to tweak on-site a bit more. The on-screen HX editing allowed that, and the SA pedals required a cable plugged into Input 2 on the pedals + mobile app which was too involved for me.

I actually MIDI controller my Stomp and love it. I can get way more complexity than anything (press and hold MIDI to activate a Poly Sustain, and when I release the midi switch the Stomp changes 4 other settings via MIDI commands. Can't do that stomp-alone).

My vote: MultiFX, due to on-site/realtime editing abilities

This is interesting, especially the part of controlling the line 6 with midi, can i Ask which unit you use for that?

also, would you be able to run through what kind of sounds you would use regularly?

I agree that its nice to be able to easily change parameters on the go when live, I suppose the lack of screen is definitely one of the biggest cons in the SA system. The Boss GT1000 core even has Bluetooth for cordless connectivity - EDIT it does not..the gt1000 does however.

thanks for your input!

 

[Krisfield]

The GT1000 has Bluetooth, the Core doesn’t.

The Boss GT1000 core even has Bluetooth for cordless connectivity.

 

[Blue Swede]

The GT1000 has Bluetooth, the Core doesn’t.

Ahh my bad, you’re right. Confused it with the video I saw of Janek Gwizdala demoing the big unit. (Edited my previous post for clarification)

 

[Pedalnetics]

This is interesting, especially the part of controlling the line 6 with midi, can i Ask which unit you use for that?

also, would you be able to run through what kind of sounds you would use regularly?

I agree that its nice to be able to easily change parameters on the go when live, I suppose the lack of screen is definitely one of the biggest cons in the SA system. The Boss GT1000 core even has Bluetooth for cordless connectivity - EDIT it does not..the gt1000 does however.

thanks for your input!

Some people hate the HX on-screen editing. It does take a little getting used to, but I'm 100% happy with it after sitting down and figuring it out after an hour or two of dedicated messing.

Morningstar Engineering makes amazing midi controllers, and I run their MC8. I actually have an Expression pedal connected to it, and send MIDI Expression commands to my stomp as well. This let's me setup the Stomp for multiple items in a single preset to be MIDI controlled on different codes, and the MC8 can switch between which EXP-controlled-parameter I'm sending to.

My needs are pretty basic, 99% worship bass + rythem guitar. I definitely did not use the C4 to a heavy extent that I'd call myself a Synth user, but so far I've never needed anything more than the HX can produce. Most of my used sounds are either octave, chorus, reverb, delay, mixed with the amps the HX Stomp can do, with varying levels of compression & EQ. Definitely nothing ground-breaking.

 

[bassbrad]

I have a hybrid set up using three Source audio pedals; Aftershock, C4 & Bass Ultrawave; a selection of analog and digital pedals and a Zoom MS60B for modulation, delay and reverbs. The SA and Zoom are plugged into a USB hub and connected to a ASUS gaming laptop that I run Neuro Desktop and ToneLib Zoom on to control my pedals. The computer gives me access to all my patches, the ability for real time adjustments and cost less than a midi footswitch setup [that I could never decide on or figure out how to program any way] plus it gives me the ability to record on the fly.

 

[PaulS]

I have a hybrid set up using three Source audio pedals; Aftershock, C4 & Bass Ultrawave; a selection of analog and digital pedals and a Zoom MS60B for modulation, delay and reverbs. The SA and Zoom are plugged into a USB hub and connected to a ASUS gaming laptop that I run Neuro Desktop and ToneLib Zoom on to control my pedals. The computer gives me access to all my patches, the ability for real time adjustments and cost less than a midi footswitch setup [that I could never decide on or figure out how to program any way] plus it gives me the ability to record on the fly.
View attachment 4417146

Wow that’s some set up! Never thought you could control these things with a laptop. Can I ask where you get those plastic covers for the foot switch buttons?

 

[doran.dragic]

I own a Stomp and a C4. Stomp can also be used as a MIDI controller for the C4.

1. Reliability - in particular live shows as that's where I will use it 99.9% of time
Both very reliable, never had an issue with any of those.
2. Quality of audio.
Never bothered me. I think both units sound excellent, you just need to know what to use them for.
3. Ease of setup and programming/Price (TIED)
You'll need a computer to access all parameters of the C4 and if you don't have experience with synths it's not going to be easy. I find Stomp about as easy to use as a multi FX unit can be. I find C4 too expensive, especially since it doesn't have MIDI right out of the box and you need to get a Neuro Hub or another host. But the synths on the Stomp can't compare to C4.

 

[Blue Swede]

Some people hate the HX on-screen editing. It does take a little getting used to, but I'm 100% happy with it after sitting down and figuring it out after an hour or two of dedicated messing.

Morningstar Engineering makes amazing midi controllers, and I run their MC8. I actually have an Expression pedal connected to it, and send MIDI Expression commands to my stomp as well. This let's me setup the Stomp for multiple items in a single preset to be MIDI controlled on different codes, and the MC8 can switch between which EXP-controlled-parameter I'm sending to.

My needs are pretty basic, 99% worship bass + rythem guitar. I definitely did not use the C4 to a heavy extent that I'd call myself a Synth user, but so far I've never needed anything more than the HX can produce. Most of my used sounds are either octave, chorus, reverb, delay, mixed with the amps the HX Stomp can do, with varying levels of compression & EQ. Definitely nothing ground-breaking.

See that’s the thing isn’t it, I don’t need anything groundbreaking sound wise, but I like technology and toys. I play in a coverband so most of the stuff I need is in the hx/boss. Source audio do come up with some cool stuff though, if I still had an originals band I think that’s the route I would go, its just getting everything together and working that I’m afraid I won’t have the time for with full time work and family.

 

[Blue Swede]

I have a hybrid set up using three Source audio pedals; Aftershock, C4 & Bass Ultrawave; a selection of analog and digital pedals and a Zoom MS60B for modulation, delay and reverbs. The SA and Zoom are plugged into a USB hub and connected to a ASUS gaming laptop that I run Neuro Desktop and ToneLib Zoom on to control my pedals. The computer gives me access to all my patches, the ability for real time adjustments and cost less than a midi footswitch setup [that I could never decide on or figure out how to program any way] plus it gives me the ability to record on the fly.
View attachment 4417146

how do you manage your sound during songs? Or do you setup in a way where you don’t have to change anything missing for instance? It’s an interesting alternative but I’d probably like to keep things at my feet. Never wrong to think outside the box though, thanks for your input!

 

[scott sinner]

1. Reliability - I use the Source Audio stuff for a bit and didn't have any reliability issues. My bandmate has the HX Stomp and similarly no problems. No first hand experience with the Boss GT1000, but I have long used a ms3, sy300, and other boss stuff and they are very solid.

2. Quality of audio.
HX Stomp and Source Audio, personally, I think are at the point I couldn't blindly tell analog pedals apart from. That's come a long way. Source Audio, I think was a leader in that, but the Line 6 stuff from 10 years ago, I thought was pretty bad.

I think in purely subjective terms, I like the algorithms of the Source Audio One series. I think they've coded more subtle imperfection if you will in those sounds.

BOSS GT1000 - I am not 100% sure that the GT1000 uses the same technology and programming as the ms3, but if it does or isn't a whole tier above, I think the Boss engine is a letter grade lower than the HX and Source Audio. Still very good, in a live context, I don't know that I'd ever notice. There are some effects that are just top notch, some I find a little clinical, boring sounding. For recording, I might skip some of the Boss sounds and use different pedals from my locker or plugins. We have zero issues using the HX or, when I had them, Source Audio recording.

3. Ease of setup and programming/Price.
HX Stomp is complicated. It can take a little time to set things up. But it has the advantage you can do a lot without a computer etc.

That's why I'm not using the Source Audio pedals any more. If you are really a set your presets and leave em alone kinda person, they are great. I also felt stunted by the way the midi works with the Hub. I just want regular old MIDI and program changes. But that's me being idiosyncratically persnickety I recognize, they totally have a viable system there. I mean, I'm using a freaking Zoia. but I just like pedal stuff at my finger tips.

Again, don't have the GT1000, but I think the editing is similar to the ms3 which I find, once you get over the learning curve, totally usable on the fly. I only really hook it up to the computer to update firmware and copy my template (which has the appropriate MIDI sends etc. set up) to all the presets.

 

[Blue Swede]

I own a Stomp and a C4. Stomp can also be used as a MIDI controller for the C4.

1. Reliability - in particular live shows as that's where I will use it 99.9% of time
Both very reliable, never had an issue with any of those.
2. Quality of audio.
Never bothered me. I think both units sound excellent, you just need to know what to use them for.
3. Ease of setup and programming/Price (TIED)
You'll need a computer to access all parameters of the C4 and if you don't have experience with synths it's not going to be easy. I find Stomp about as easy to use as a multi FX unit can be. I find C4 too expensive, especially since it doesn't have MIDI right out of the box and you need to get a Neuro Hub or another host. But the synths on the Stomp can't compare to C4.

I never imagined the hx would sound as good as the C4for synthy sounds, after all they’re 2 different kinds of animals. But if I can get close that might be enough. I do also think that price wise it would get fairly costly to buy all separate pedals instead of all in one, especially with controllers taken into account. A few of you seem to think that HX Stomp is reliable and I’m starting to realize that for my needs the hx stomp is probably the perfect size, at least right now.

 

[JUMBO 70]

Alright, I used the smaller board pictured for a long time. Got really familiar with the C4 controlled by the GT1000.

I cannot emphasize this enough, despite this being my subjective opinion, the Stomp absolutely trounces the GT1000. It’s not even close. I’m talking usability, functionality, but mostly sound. Man it just sounds so much better. I get so sad thinking about how many gigs I spent trying to get the GT to sound any good. The stomp did it instantly.

I sold the C4 when I got the stomp thinking the stomp did everything I was asking the C4 to do. I don’t regret selling it, but I’ll admit there are a handful of things the C4 was better at than the stomp. Mostly - filters, envelope control, and synth wave stuff like square waves and sawtooths. I believe both multifx units can be used to control the C4’s presets. I never connected the it to the stomp but it was a bit of a headache using the GT. It also needed a midi interface between the two pedals. Such a pain.

get a stomp lol

 

[mngnt]

Hi all,

TL,DR:
Would you prefer source audio pedals controlled by midi or multi fx units for a pedal board setup?

Everyone I've heard who uses midi occasionally runs into problems.

The Helix LT is so cheap now, IMO it's a no brainer.

 

[dkelley]

I use a helix LT:

I use no other outboard devices any longer, unless I need (want) to use my roland gr-55 for it's special features (like doing guitar on bass or bass on guitar or various synths/strings/whatever, or for switching to alternate tunings on the fly... all of that magic).

Sound quality is, literally, perfect. indistinguishable from the amps and pedals it models, if you set it up properly (by properly, I mean, know how to set the outputs to match your system, and spend a bit of time learning the internal cab emulations or choosing from millions of downloadable cab IR files (or instrument IR files, for that matter).

I use it as my recording interface, currently, for the album I'm working on... for both bass and vocals (with an outboard vocal channel preamp).

It gives me more tone options (via amps/cabs/pedals) than I ever had before, and in better quality than I ever had in previous modelers I've owned (and I've owned many).

It's fairly big, but it's the only unit I use.

It's relatively heavy, but not nearly as heavy as my pedalboard was.

Only drawback so far is that the screen is nearly invisible in direct sunlight. But mostly I choose one configuration and just use the different pedal buttons to switch effects on and off, so it's not really a big deal. Wish that wasn't an issue though.... although it's an issue with many other things too (much more serious things, like the keyboardist in my band who coulnd't see his keyboard screen to change patches in our recent outdoor show).

 

[bassbrad]

Wow that’s some set up! Never thought you could control these things with a laptop. Can I ask where you get those plastic covers for the foot switch buttons?

Amazon of course, Zoom and TC pedals have a different size and for those I use the metal covers. There are several custom makers on Reverb as well.

how do you manage your sound during songs? Or do you setup in a way where you don’t have to change anything missing for instance? It’s an interesting alternative but I’d probably like to keep things at my feet. Never wrong to think outside the box though, thanks for your input!

I don't make sound changes during songs on anything but the Zoom and have sequences set up on that.
The other pedals are in a loop that I can switch on/off as needed either individually or the entire loop.

 

[doran.dragic]

See that’s the thing isn’t it, I don’t need anything groundbreaking sound wise, but I like technology and toys. I play in a coverband so most of the stuff I need is in the hx/boss. Source audio do come up with some cool stuff though, if I still had an originals band I think that’s the route I would go, its just getting everything together and working that I’m afraid I won’t have the time for with full time work and family.

To me a cover band situation is where the Stomp shines. You're going to set up the patches that you need once and there's no need for tweaking them afterwards. You only have to deal with room acoustics.

 

[JohnSmith2]

I agree with much of what’s said here. Kinda eerie, though I guess I got all these ideas on TB.
1) I (also) use Morningstar MIDI controller + HX stomp (+ mini exp pedal). Makes a fantastic travel board. Fits on a nano, which fits in a Mono Tick, which can attach to an M80 gig bag. Can be battery powered. Makes any sound I realistically need it to and sounds great. Sends balanced out to FoH and/or powered monitor via TRS -> XLR.
2) I’ve (also) tried the boss GT 1000 gear and didn’t like it as much. I was well invested in the helix gear at that point though, to be fair, so lots of potential for confirmation bias.
3) I (also) own a C4 stomp because it’s awesome and I like making it make cool/silly/fun noises, that also sound great. I keep it home, though, it’s not on my traveling board. For the particular amateur vanilla music I perform, I’ve never “needed” the C4 for anything.

A couple other thoughts:
1) I really love the helix gear generally for your three dimensions, not just the HX stomp. I also have a helix rack and foot controller in my studio/big stage rig. All the helix stuff in my experience is reliable, sounds great, and is great to program(…once you figure it out). You can absolutely program on the device itself, in real-time, which is an incredible feat, but I prefer to use the (good enough) HX edit software to do “patch design” and only twist knobs for “real-time” tweaking.
2) just calling out reliability: my HX stomp has been dropped, kicked, spilled on, (no joke) peed on by a giant dog, and flown in soft bags with angry flight crews to/from Dubai, San Francisco, Dominican Republic, and New York. Never had a single issue despite heaping abuse on it.
3) I really like the source audio gear. It’s probably half step up in audio quality from the helix gear (but helix still sounds fantastic to my ear), half step down in reliability (but still very reliable), but at least a whole step down in programmability. You cannot access 99% of the functionality of the source audio devices on the devices themselves - to do anything besides use the 6 built in presents you have to control it with the computer or phone or MIDI
4) I also have several external, high quality, pre-amps, DIs, drive, and compressor pedals that I’ve collected over the years. They sound GREAT. I use to use them throughout my helix chain, but I hardly use any of them anymore generally, and definitely never live. I just go bass -> helix -> FoH/IEM. While several of these compressors/drives/pre-amps could be said to sound “better” in some way than the models in the helix, I find the helix direct overall a better/more useful tool to use when crafting a mix in a live setting.